As first a PHP developer to a now CF developer, I partly agree. PHP's biggest strength is also it's biggest weakness. It grew so fast that everyone who jumped on board learned how to do alot of things the *wrong* way. There are too many php resources online and most teach how to do the quick fix instead of how to properly build applications with PHP.
The other issue is with quick fix, plug and pray apps like PHPBB and PHPNuke. They have every kid with a 'puter thinking that they know PHP and it drowns the good developers out of the mix. Without question, PHP is great in it's own rights, but out of the 100 or so "PHP developers" I know, I'd only hire 4 of them. Sincerely, Kevin -----Original Message----- From: dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF vs LAMP well Micha maybe in your "only enterprise" world you live in what you say maybe true. But once you come outta la-la land it isn't. You say more ppl use CFM because it's easy? I completely disagree with this, I'd say that more people use PHP because it's "free". "free" beats out easy any day! In your lil enterprise world I am sure there are good php coders but I'd say a HUGE and I mean HUGE chuck of the PHP crowd is pretty clueless to any kind or sort of programming and has 0 programming background. Probably 80% of the don't even have a clue to what OOP even is or use it. One thing I can say about cfm users is that if you see a site in cfm it usually isn't to bad, I seriously can't say that about php. Here in the "real world" every dick & harry that thinks they are gunna make a web site and has no web background at all, chooses php. Most have no concept of anything other than to use zend tools and dreamweaver, they don't even know what a doc title is or what compliance is or any kind of presentation standard. Seems to me at least most cfm'rs have a bit more knowledge and background. Here's an example, completely typical of my competition. www.gonzogear1.com To me that's your typical LAMP project, granted I don't do enterprise stuff but this is a majority of what's out there and this is an average example of what I personally go up against. SO you tell me that the person who did this has a a background in anything besides bad taste or that they use OOP and this isn't a BAD example, it's average. Just look at the source code, my god, hell only 79 html errors on home page alone. " Most people starting with PHP have at least some theoretical and experience about programming." Hogwash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most ppl starting with PHP have little or no background in programming whatsoever, i'd even say most of them don't even know it's a server-side language! To me it still comes down to this, if you take 2 equal programmers who will deliver the same quality site then you are on equal grounds to start. Then it comes down to cost. Say I charge $100 hour (about average here) that would mean if I could finish a project 12 hours faster than the guy using lamp then it would be equal again and if say the project takes the lamp guy 120 hours to finish and me (cause i am a slacker) 80 hours (because fact is that less code takes less time which we all agree that cfm is about 2x as fast to program in than php), which is the better deal? The LAMP one just cost $12000 the cfm one (including buying a server license) just cost $9200 The client just save $2800, it ain't rocket science. If you can't sell your sell or what you do, then I would suggest you hire someone to do it for you. There really isn't any reason why you can't sell a cfm site as easily as anything else because there is a small price tag on it isn't a good enough excuse. ~Dave the disruptor~ This bottle of lemonaid says "contains no lemon juice" and the can of Pledge says "contains real lemon juice" figures @%*((&% ---------------------------------------- From: "Micha Schopman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:37 AM To: CF-Talk <[email protected]> Subject: RE: CF vs LAMP Nofi, but this thread is going off topic because some people are too blind seeing there is more on the market than CF :) If you don't like PHP, that's all right, everybody has its own personal affection with a language, but stating in someway that the developers using PHP are amateurs is just not true. In general, I found the average quality of products developed with PHP much higher than those made with CF. The learning curve of CF due to its tag based syntax is much lower, and so people with less programming experience or less know-how about how to approach certain constructions are starting quickly writing their code in CF. That is the power behind CF, but it has its side effects regarding quality. The PHP learning curve is much higher nor is it very attractive to the beginning developer. Most people starting with PHP have at least some theoretical and experience about programming. Ofcourse there are many good CF developers, but there are also a lot of unexperienced developers, just because they can get started quickly with programming. How many developers really use cfqueryparam for instance? I think there are a lot just output the values without review. This is true code running in production I had to review once (because there was an error somewhere) http://www.mschopman.demon.nl/horror.txt Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:208440 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
