Just to cap on what Dave was saying, I don't agree with your logic. Only
because I have been programming now for 20 years, I have been in the
industry for 12 of these years. Both my bothers are in the Games industry,
and both have written PC applications to help with their work. Many times
before they look at using the OO methods and the program size is 100 times
bigger than if they used conventional methods.
To give you an example, most games now are based on a message system.
Windows uses this as part of the OS to communicate with the rest of the OS,
so does the game. The games developers are forced to create smaller code and
are pressured to get the same results that Windows can in many cases do. The
smaller the code, the quicker it runs. I mean it really doesn't mean much
these days, but look at how much memory the Windows 2000 suite of OS's needs
to run efficiently. I can name an OS that could do the same as Windows
could, and it ran faster than Windows ever could in about 2meg of ram. This
is my point, it might be could to be able to use OO to achieve the nifty
things, but at what cost. We have to spend more on ram, hard drive space and
processor speed to make full advantage of this. WHY! OO isn't a necessity at
all.
Can anyone recall the Commodorew Amiga family computers, here was an OS
ahead of its time. Sure it supported C++, but the OS was written in standard
C, it had all the features of the current version of Windows with messaging
etc, and never once used anything OO..... The applications functioned the
same as the MS versions and they were a 100 times smaller in size, don't get
me wrong I am not convicting oo as bad. Just that I know enough from all the
years in the games/application areas to comment.
regards
Andrew Scott
ANZ eCommerce Centre
* Ph 9273 0693
* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Dawson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 03 October 2000 07:01
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Fusebox [CF-Talk]
sure. open source?
From: Gavin Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Fusebox [CF-Talk]
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:37:47 -0500
I thought more game developers prefer OO...
To bring it back (way back) take a look at moocode (who here programmed in a
MU*)
Or to bring it up, look at director lingo script
I recently made a game in director, you were a guy who walked around a maze
with a laser rifle trying to explode these buzz saws before they killed you.
I am familair to OO (thanks to moocode) and I knew that director supported
programming in OO, but since I didn't know how to script it in director I
was forced to build the game non-oo.
So my buzz saws all did the same action, they would approach the person.
Once that person intersected them they would kill it. And one laser shot
killed it.
Had I developed it in OO, i could create a list of things like:
$generic_buzzsaw
verbs:
hit
die
move
properties:
buzz_saw_delay_factor: 4
buzz_saw_speed: 2
buzz_saw_strength: 5
buzz_saw_image: 3
Therefore I could re-use the one parent ($generic_buzzsaw) and create the
children that had different effects to them... without having to cut and
paste the code and changing a few variables around for each difference.
*shrug*
oh, if anyone wants the game i can put it out on my web site, (its pretty
cheesy)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Fusebox [CF-Talk]
> Why are people so hell bent on OO, lets face it OO seems to
> be a good idea. But good ideas cost us in the long run. Lets
> look at c++ for instance, before c++ was introduced programs
> where smaller memeory wasn't and issue and hard drive space
> either was not an issue. Then somwhere along the lines we began
> coding with OO, then we needed 10 times as much memory and now
> we need thousands more hardrive space.
People are "hell bent" on OO because it solves quite a few problems, and in
cases where it's the appropriate answer, the fact that OO code is less
efficient from a performance standpoint is outweighed by its advantages.
> Ask a games developer what the prefer and you will find that
> they opt out of oo big time, remember that when you inheret a
> class you inherit everything about that class everytime you
> need it. So this means that the code runs slower becuase it
> has more work to do, it becomes larger because it has more
> code that is compiled that is maybe not needed.
While I respect game developers as much as anyone else does, asking a game
developer what they prefer is relevant if you want to develop games, but not
necessarily if you want to develop business applications.
Game developers build applications which fit within a specific niche - where
performance and efficiency count more than anything else. They can't afford
to waste resources in storage or calculation.
Business developers, on the other hand, build applications within a
different niche - where maintenance and extensibility count more than
anything else. They can't afford to build applications that are so low-level
and tightly written that they can't be maintained.
I'm a big fan of Quake, but I don't think people will be playing it twenty
years from now. A successful business application may well be in existence
that long, or longer - just ask all the COBOL developers who were patching
applications last year!
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444
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