Interesting! I just ran out of things to solve after the classpath runtime issue and now maybe I could work on this cfmail problem.
I normally can read (unofficially) all the unsent mail in the Undelivr folder and redo everything on a shared host. I have always done this and I have changed shared hosts a few times. I even have hsqldb running on a shared host! The speed level is way off the chart too. I also do work for them installing stuff and fixing things, so they will never boot me. I told them about the hsqldb web server running inside CF and they did not care and I loaded it all at runtime with drivers, go figure. On 7/30/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > LOL good one - I am not poo poo-ing Mike's request! Far from it I respect > anyones drive to improve CD but... > > whether you buy it or not, once ColdFusion has written the email to disk / > memory it is out of your calling threads hands. There is only a finite > number or ways you could report that a mail has failed during a thread > duration - as Mike noted username, password, and server and that is about > it > (and ColdFusion does this now). > > In the duration of the calling thread there is no way you could tell if an > email is going to be successful or not (if it passes the security parts > above) as what can ColdFusion do when an email is accepted to an SMTP > server > for an unknown user but that server is told to try sending it 10 times in > say 1 week?! The only foolproof way is to use failto in tandom with cfpop. > > Now, while I do see where improvements can be made and indeed should, like > you noted but they are more underlying JavaMail feature based (more access > to JavaMail stuff as I would love to get TLS working natively!) I also > voted > for the more ways to plugin your own cfmail engine. > > All I can ascertain here is a request that you can get access to the mail > undeliverable folder in a shared environment which in itself is not > related > to cfmail. > > > N > > > > > > "This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, > Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, > Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is > confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of > the > intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please > note > that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the > information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error please return it to the sender or > call > our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910. The opinions expressed within > this > communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions." > Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Denny Valliant > To: CF-Talk > Sent: Sun Jul 30 03:14:58 2006 > Subject: Re: CF 8 feature survey > > Ditto, Rick! And workarounds are usually the easiest features to > implement! > You KNOW what you want, or expect, or whatnot. No need for votes, etc. > > CFMAIL has had "issues" for ages, it constantly killed my server, with > CF 5 I think. It's gotten better, but I can feel Mike's frustration, > there > is a certain air of the "fax modem" that's a modem but not really a fax, > if you catch my drift. I think I saw a rating scale on how well various > systems handled email, and CF was at the bottom. > But that's just basically hear-say. > > I remember having to be up at 3am, just to restart CF and clean > the spool folder. Heh. 'magine? "Having" to do anything... *sigh* (sorry, > side thought about my lack of focus). > > But seriously, I've seen cfmail pop up as a complaint enough that > I wouldn't try to sell it as not needing improvement. I wouldn't mind > being able to use some of the functionality that's already in javamail, > for instance (secure imap! ;o). I mean, *I* can, as I can gleam what > I need to use the java, but no neophyte could do that very easy. > > It's a tough call, this feature request stuff. Sorta like voting, is the > real populace getting heard? If a tree falls in the forest, and no one > is around, does it matter? Personally, I don't use the mail part of > CF much, so I could care less, and would rather see some thing > I *DO* use or want to use get the attention, but I won't try to > downplay someone else's request to get mine in there. Not that > that's what happened, but you know, subconsciously, we want what > we want or whatever. > > Plus, what is wanted is cake to do, we're not talking complicated > math here. Adobe could hire some goons for cfmail and still see > a ton of improvement/nifty options. > > Personally, I would have filed Mike's request under "known issues"*, > if anything. But again, maybe just cuz I've run into trouble with it > as well. And don't buy the "once it's ""sent"", it's out of CF's hands" > theory. Sheesh. Our UI's are finally coming back, but email is stuck > in the last century? > *known as in: Adobe could get a raft of "wishes" just via the livedocs. > > Heh. Man, the moon must be at a certain distance from the earth > or something, right? I wish I could think of something funny to lighten > the mood... oh, I know; What did the three legged dog say when he > walked into the saloon? WAIT FOR IT... WAIT FOR IT... > I'm looking for the man who shot my paw. > > Har! Har! Har! Awesome, no? > :]enny > > On 7/29/06, Rick Faircloth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From somewhat of an outsider's perspective on this "discussion"... > > > > Usually the problems for which workarounds have to be developed > > become features eventually. > > > > Yes, it's true there are workarounds for the email issue, but if it's a > > significant issue, as Mike is saying, then CF should be enhanced > > to handle it on its own and not with workarounds. > > > > Just some thoughts... > > > > Rick > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:14 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: CF 8 feature survey > > > > Yep. SIlly me. I've been coding ColdFusion for only 9 years. > > > > I have more than 40 clients building web sites on my system. I build > sites > > for other clients on their systems too. In all, over the last 9 years > > I've > > worked on self-hosted systems and shared hosting systems. > > In fact I think i've worked on sites on about 6 different hosting > centres. > > Some mine, some were other hosting companies my clients have chosen. My > > first learning experience all those years ago was with Shanje > (SHUDDER!), > > and lately with HostMySite, and Netspeed and others in between. > > > > NOT ONE . .NONE have ever had any plan to allow users to get access to > > undelivered emails. > > > > As i said, i had this fantasy that last week alone I spent 6 hours > trying > > to > > track down CFMAIL problems that my clients were having in their code. > > Obviously i was mistaken and was reading the paper all > > that time instead. The panic emails from my clients asking for help > > figuring out why their forms weren't working were figments of my > > imagination. > > > > CFMAIL is a tag that gives a lot of heartburn to some users. It was > > impertinent of me to suggest that perhaps we might make CFMAIL easier > > for users to code. After all, ColdFusion had that reputation years > > ago that it was easy to use for neophytes, but "REAL" SERVER PROGRAMS > > shed that notion really early on. And if Coldfusion is to be a > > "REAL" SERVER app like .ASP or .PHP it has to be more difficult to use > not > > easier. > > > > I dont know what i was thinking. Easier to use. Reduce the time > > taken to develop and debug. Jeez. That would only get in the way of > > the headlong rush to force ColdFusion into being a second-class > imitation > > of > > something else rather than the best in the world at what it does best - > > something that the java and dotnet and php programmers would envy and > > whine > > about to their vendors. NO! We wouldnt want that. We have to > continually > > compare CFMX to other solutions, instead of having THEM follow US. > > > > For many shared hosted users it isnt all there. (not their - your > > spellcheck has led you astray). You dont have experience of shared > > hosting Neil so I think you should pull your head in on the subject. > > There are quite a few aspects of CF sites that are different for > > shared hosted environments. And access to server-level folders and > > the CF Admin is one of them. > > > > It's not essential that CFMAIL be made easier to use and debug. But it > > would be of assistance to users in shared hosting environments. We > > were talking about things we'd like to see in CF8. I saw a need and > > said so but now i wish I hadn't. I think CF would be a little easier > > and faster to develop with if debugging of that tag was improved. > > And found a simple thing that could be done to make it easier to > > debug. Since then you've done nothing but cry it down. I dont know > > why you see it as such a threat. You wouldnt have to use it. You could > > still do any debugging the old way. > > > > Apparently you think anything that makes CFMX easier to use and debug is > a > > bad thing. I can only imagine you think it makes it less like java or > > something if it's easier to use. > > > > I sure wont make the mistake again of thinking it would be a good thing > > if > > CFMX were any easier to use even in a small way. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > Mike Kear > > Windsor, NSW, Australia > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > > AFP Webworks > > http://afpwebworks.com > > ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/30/06, Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > That is not what we are saying! The fact here is that you say there is > > > no way to tell if an email fails - and we know there is - both at > > > server level and code. > > > > > > What more do you need to tell that an email fails? it is all their for > > you. > > > > > > ColdFusion is 10 years old and this is probably that most basic of > tags. > > > Jochen provided a good way hosts deal with the undeliverable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting, up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four times a year. http://www.fusionauthority.com/quarterly Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:248162 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
