> so cf will always be undefined until there is a page refresh?. Close. When you output the form you are simply outputting HTML for the *client* to process; that's it (so yes, the variables are not available). When the client sends a POST or GET request using the form, those variables are sent over http to the *server* (ie. ColdFusion) and are then available. If they refresh the page, they are simply requesting the same original request and so the variables will still not be available.
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