Agree..
Although, while new sales seems like Macromedias constant goal (shareholders to look after etc) typically this is NOT a bad thing for us :) I say this as if more people use CFMX as a solution, means more Jobs in the future, resulting in more "EXP" developers getting more kudos..which means ScottyB can upgrade is Honda CR125 to a Honda CRF 450 (dirtbike) without worrying about mortgages and alike ...hehehe
IT Economics 101 - Get them hooked, then they are yours for life.
I agree though, either give the total solution or don't give over the full. It can be a double edged sword, in that "wooooh purty accordian pane"...but now i want to do XYZ to it...what its black boxed? well how can i un-black box it...<insert flex price> ...i can't afford that...all i want to do is change the thingy on tha watchyamacallit...bah...thats annoying and its now pissed me off.
Which could impact Macromedias virtual reputation amongst the coders throughout... and evil seeded mentality like anti-Microsoft starts to creep it... things like "What the world not good enough for you, you need more money now.."
I was once told by a UI Usability guru "don't show a user something unless they can have it" meaning, don't show them an Admin menu option if they don't have menu access (even if it is disabled) as it can trigger a number of things (panic, fear, jealousy etc).
I'd say this is a nice rule to live by?
Scott
But i'm a moron, so disregard my thoughts ;) hehehehe
P.S
Don't get me wrong I don't hate BlackStone or Macromedia, infact I thank them, without this company (aka Allaire) i wouldn't have a house/lifestyle i enjoy.. so don't take it the wrong way :D
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 29/09/2004 01:15:03 PM:
> >> I see your, and many other developers positions, which I assume comes
> from a coders perspective,
>
> which is biased to be sure - another viewpoint is from the managers eyes
> (deadlines, budgets, etc)....
>
> >> However, the main selling point of CF is fast deployment of complex big
> business applications
>
> I'm not so sure that this cuts much weight anymore - lots of platforms are
> into this, including ASP.NET where it is possible to write apps with
> hardly any code at all thanx to people being reliant on MS class
> libraries, not a published spec
>
> don't get me wrong - I can see the value of this UI integration and
> abstraction, if only for the RAD build to keep the managers happy. But as
> Scott B pointed out with CF7 Flashforms and the Halo skin - what happens
> when you can't bend the integrated UI to the companies design standards?
> It's roll up the sleeves time
>
> ...or how about when it gets it wrong?
> http://aspnetresources.com/articles/HttpFilters.aspx (how to hack ASP.NET
> to be XHTML compliant).
>
> Here we don't/can't use the current cfform, cfgrid, et al, but we do use
> Flash datagrids occasionally (and it sticks out like "dogs balls" amongst
> the DHTML). It strikes me that the CF7 FLEX-type add-ins are cute (for
> about 5 min) but don't go far enough - a token effort - especially when
> the rest of the apps are full-on DHTML.
>
> QUESTION: what do people want from CF UI integration?
>
> to start the ball rolling, for me it's either add ALL of FLEX into CF7 or
> don't bother - half hearted is next to useless in the long term on
> enterprise web apps.
>
> yes, I know I'm starting to sound like a cracked record with this CF+FLEX
> thing but 1) Sean Corfield is asking for new features (to get more sales,
> admittedly - NOT to keep us happy) and it's this in spades and 2) it's
> only a matter of time before MS releases something like this in ASP.NET
> 2.0*
>
> ....unless you want to see CF listed here:
> http://www.macromedia.
> com/support/general/ts/documents/unsupported_product_version.htm
>
>
> my 2c (GST exempt)
> barry.b
>
> (*http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/productinfo/conceptvid/default.
> aspx#government)
>
>
>
>
> > Interesting stuff about ASP.net, good thing I don't use it, heh. I see =
> > your, and many other developers positions, which I assume comes from a =
> > coders perspective, sort of pulling the code away from the UI. However, =
> > the main selling point of CF is fast deployment of complex big business =
> > applications. I don't know about you but it seems like as good of a =
> > product that I create, when it gets to the non-technical managers they =
> > only ever seem to ask for a little box to pop-up here and this to =
> > disappear when you click this option.=20
> >
> > Your right, a simple merger of the technologies would be a bad idea, but =
> > that doesn't stop a hybrid of the ideas that does what you need it to =
> > do. By strictly limiting what you could do through the tag or access =
> > point you could also protect against the exact things that your worried =
> > about.=20
> >
> > Then again, maybe I am crazy, I do code JS and CF all day for peanuts.
> >
> > Ryan Bouwens - 907-729-5471
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] =
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry =
> > Beattie
> > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 4:52 PM
> > To: CFAussie Mailing List
> > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CF UI intergration enhancements (was Re: =
> > Blackstone (was: Jeremy Allaire on ASP))
> >
> > this is starting to sound very much like the ASP.NET platform - have a =
> > look at how it works - you'll see the similarities, including the =
> > accessing of client events with server-side code (eg onpageload(), etc).
> >
> > >> but I am not a fan of using 3 languages on one page to accomplish =
> > simple tasks.
> >
> > what ASP.NET does is abstract the http request process enough so you do =
> > the whole lot from the VB or C# code to get around the 3 languages issue =
> > (in other words, it's all smoke and mirrors that writes the html and JS =
> > for you).=20
> >
> > there's some real limitations, though. customizing is a PITB - it's all =
> > string builders to write your custom JS, everything is a bloody =
> > post-back (even dual linked selects - each change in one is a =
> > server-side postback and page reload to display the other, etc).
> >
> > I dunno if it's that worthwhile - this blurring of server-side and =
> > client side works for ASP.NET (to a point) to make it feel like you're =
> > coding windows forms.=20
> >
> > I think it's a cheat, it glosses over the http request divide and =
> > involves stupid work-arounds to do stuff we take for granted (eg: =
> > ASP.NET 2.0 will now allow you to submit a "server-side" FORM to a =
> > different file/page - go figure!)
> >
> > and besides, who's to say the request is a http one to a browser (esp =
> > when it comes to CF7's event gateways)?
> >
> > CF UI intergration is not on my wish list I'm afraid...
> > =20
> > cheers
> > barry.b
> >
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to cfaussie as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aussie Macromedia Developers: http://lists.daemon.com.au/
To unsubscribe from this email please forward this email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient of this email you are prohibited by law from
dealing with or relying on the email or any file attachments. This prohibition includes reading, printing, copying, re-transmitting,
disseminating, storing or in any other way dealing or acting in reliance on the information. If you have received this email in
error, we request you contact ABN AMRO Morgans Limited immediately by returning the email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and destroy the original. We will refund any reasonable costs associated with notifying ABN
AMRO Morgans. This email is confidential and may contain privileged client information. ABN AMRO Morgans has taken
reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy and integrity of all its communications, including electronic communications, but
accepts no liability for materials transmitted. Materials may also be transmitted without the knowledge of ABN AMRO Morgans.
ABN AMRO Morgans Limited its directors and employees do not accept liability for the results of any actions taken or not
on the basis of the information in this report. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited and its associates hold or may hold securities in
the companies/trusts mentioned herein. Any recommendation is made on the basis of our research of the investment and
may not suit the specific requirements of clients. Assessments of suitability to an individuals portfolio can only be made
after an examination of the particular clients investments, financial circumstances and requirements.
ABN AMRO Morgans Limited (ABN 49 010 669 726 AFSL 235410) A Participant of ASX Group
--- You are currently subscribed to cfaussie as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aussie Macromedia Developers: http://lists.daemon.com.au/
