Hi all !
"Using cells made up entirely of nils for surrogate arguments combines
the advantages of the two earlier surrogate argument proposals"
Pesch [1986] proposes the solution I thought might maybe work.
According to Rank and Uniformity, Roger K.W. Hui we did not, however,
choose this solution in J.
Is the analysis in the Pesch paper wrong? Are there any reasons that it
could not be used in J?
Otherwise the question is if it would be possible to change any part of
this design choice. Could we, for example, stop hiding errors
encountered? If we do not shield the execution from side effects, could
we do that? Would it even be possible to switch to the solution Pesch
proposed?
Cheers,
Erling Hellenäs
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 09:59:53 +0100 (CET), "Erling Hellenäs" wrote:
> Here is the Pesch [1986] paper.
> http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/EmptyFrames.htm /Erling
>
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 21:17:58 +0100, Erling Hellenäs wrote:
>
> > Moved the thread to chat. /Erling
> >
> > On 2017-12-20 19:32, Erling Hellenäs wrote:
> > > Hi all!
> > >
> > > Thanks, I will look into the details tomorrow, but yes , and I see a
> > > number of problems with this as mentioned in this post:
> > >
> http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2017-December/050179.html
> > > In this thread I am trying to discuss strategies to solve these
> problems.
> > > Pesch[1986] might give us relevant information about this. Thanks!
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Erling Hellenäs
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2017-12-20 17:21, Jose Mario Quintana wrote:
> > >>> For this to happen J functions have to be defined for handling
> > >>> arrays of
> > >> nothing?
> > >>
> > >> I have not followed this thread, or any other recent thread, closely
> but
> > >> this might shed some light:
> > >>
> > >> "
> > >> Zero Frame. If the frame contains 0 (as in 3 *"1 i. 0 4), there are
> no
> > >> argument cells to apply v to, and the shape of a result cell (the
> > >> value of
> > >> sir) is indeterminate. Pesch [1986] describes a variety of
> > >> strategies to
> > >> address this problem. In J, the shape is calculated if v is uniform
> (see
> > >> below); otherwise v is applied to a cell of fills.
> > >> "
> > >>
> > >> Rank and Uniformity Roger K.W. Hui
> > >>
> > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/rank.htm
> > >>
> > >> I hope it helps
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 4:03 AM, Erling Hellenäs
> > >>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi all !
> > >>>
> > >>> Could we avoid doing these peculiar things in the rank operator if
> we
> > >>> enabled the handling of arrays of nothing?
> > >>>
> > >>> The verb injected in Rank would then have to give a valid result
> for an
> > >>> array of nothing?
> > >>>
> > >>> For this to happen J functions have to be defined for handling
> > >>> arrays of
> > >>> nothing?
> > >>>
> > >>> Would it be possible to define an algebra for the handling of
> arrays of
> > >>> nothing?
> > >>>
> > >>> Could this be the same as enabling missing data?
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers,
> > >>>
> > >>> Erling
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Den 2017-12-20 kl. 09:46, skrev Erling Hellenäs:
> > >>>
> > >>>> This is a mathematical concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > >>>> Empty_product /Erling
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Den 2017-12-20 kl. 09:39, skrev Erling Hellenäs:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> */i.0
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 1
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Here the interpreter automatically adds a 1 to get this peculiar
> > >>>>> result.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> /Erling
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Den 2017-12-19 kl. 20:01, skrev Raul Miller:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> An empty tank zero array would be inconsistent.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> The number of elements in an array is the product of its
> > >>>>>> dimensions, and
> > >>>>>> the multiplicative identity is 1, not 0.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> For information about J forums see
> > >>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
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> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >>>>
> > >>>
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> > >>> For information about J forums see
> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >>>
> > >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> For information about J forums see
> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > For information about J forums see
> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
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