Ian Clarke wrote:

> > > Freedom of Speech is all about
> > > tolerating things of which you disapprove, since you expect
> > > people who disapprove of your opinions to tolerate your right
> > > to express them.
>
> > Is it? Okay fair enough.  But what about tolerating those who are
doing
> > things contrary to the rights of other people?=20

> If all they are doing is expressing an opinion, then yes, you should
> tolerate that.

> > Seems to me like there is a fundamental gap between the right to
> > expressing one's opinion and the right to distribute images, files,
> > whatever.

> And who decides what is a valid opinion, and what isn't?  Your
> government?  You?  The church of scientology?

So I accept everything you say, Ian as regards opinions.  I believe
myself that I must respect the opinions of others.  But there seems to
be a level of contradiction in what you are saying.  You are saying that

"IF people ONLY express an OPINION
THEN tolerate them"

But surely the above statement depends on what we define as an OPINION.

You then say ask the important question:

"WHO decides what is a valid OPINION?"

It seems to me that with Freenet that you are deciding that anything
digitizable is a valid opinion.  You are still drawing a line.  Freedom
of Speech as is gets defined as something you can actually say (okay
maybe you could read out a UUecoded gif, but hey ....).  Why stop at
digitizable stuff.  Why isn't the distribution of physical objects part
of my freedom of expression, couldn't we say that me delivering a live
sheep to your house should be incorporated into my freedom of
expression, my right to express my opinion.

Think of a future with 3D physical printers.  It could be done right?  I
want to express myself by delivering cement to everybody in wales.  I'm
just expressing myself, right?

> > Maybe the bottom line is that we have to make it free to distribute
all
> > kinds of data under any circumstances, which is what Freenet
advocates,
> > right?  Why does that make me feel uncomfortable?  Am I just some
crazy
> > facist who has to overcome his terrible inhibitions and embrace the
> > brave new world?

> I think that you need to accept that freedom of speech must apply to
all
> opinions, not just those with which you are comfortable.

Yeah, you see I thought that I do accept that freedom of speech must
apply to all opinions, but I thought that an opinion was  a belief, or a
judgement about something.  At least that's what my dictionary says.  Of
course why should I accept the dictionary definition about what an
opinion is when I can accept yours that anything digitizable is an
opinion.

I have always thought that society should be based on the maxim that

"you can do anything you like as long as it doesn't infringe on the
rights of other people to do what they like"

I thought that made me quite a liberal, open and accepting person.

I have a problem with people who do things that infringe on other
people's rights.  This process of extending the term of "opinion" to
anything digitizable creates an odd situation where the expression of
some opinions (say a digitized photo of me being brutally raped) can get
in the way of my rights.  Like what about my right to not have lots of
people look at this photo of me?  What about my right to privacy, to not
have myself displayed to everybody in this way?

I guess you are going to say that those are rights that I have to
sacrifice so that we can all have complete freedom of expression, i.e.
expression of opinions, where opinions equal anything digitizable.

If you do say just that, then I think you are overlooking a complex
philosophical problem at the heart of Freenet.

I don't know that I believe that creating a system that ensures
completely anonymous ability to distribute digital material is going to
make the world a better place.  I would say that actually engaging
people of all sorts in dialogue such as this is the crucial thing, but
there you go.

CHEERS> SAM


_______________________________________________
Chat mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat

Reply via email to