Today almost all the programming effort and computer resources are devoted to presentation. Very little is devoted to solving problems. APL and J are problem solving tools. Something that is of little interest in today's computing. That is one reason they are not more popular.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Robert Raschke <[email protected]>wrote: > 2011/5/8 Björn Helgason <[email protected]> > > > idiot-proof systems can only be used by idiots > > > > 2011/5/8 Joey K Tuttle <[email protected]> > > > > > Well, I don't think so - but maybe related - or perhaps inversely > > > related.... > > > > > > I usually don't feel "idiot-proof" is "user friendly". > > > > > > I think google.com is user friendly, I don't feel the same about > > > yahoo.com even though (or perhaps because) it presents more > > > information. > > > > > > Friendly is helping me without the intrusion of something like the > > > paper clip guy in MS Word. You know, the one that pops up and says, > > > "It looks like you are writing a suicide note, would you like help > > > with that?" > > > > > > Maybe software can overstep some limit - e.g. when, just now, I typed > > > "google.com" into my Chrome browser it presented me my "iGoogle" page > > > - going more towards Yahoo.com, this doesn't happen in Safari or > > > Firefox, but all the browsers can sometimes be "in your face" with > > > help... > > > > > > Friendly is loading quickly and not leading me through a series of > > > steps to get to my goal. > > > > > > I think J is friendly because it doesn't require hundreds or > > > thousands of statements to do interesting things. It's small/quick > > > enough that I can use it in a dynamic environment such as CGI. > > > > > > Even a few seconds of delay time causes unfriendly feelings. > > > > > > On the other hand - a friend once said, "Computers allow men to make > > > more mistakes faster than any other invention in history, with the > > > possible exception of tequila and hand guns..." > > > > > > - joey > > > > > > > > > At 11:45 PM -0400 11/05/07, Devon McCormick wrote: > > > >Is "user-friendly" what we used to call "idiot-proof"? > > > > > > > >On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Joey K Tuttle <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> I agree on that. The term "user friendly" is much abused and > misused. > > > An > > > >> extra click (or 2 or ...), and extra seconds of response time can > be > > > fatal > > > >> flaws. > > > >> > > > >> - joey iPa... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On May 7, 2011, at 2:06 AM, Dejun Guo <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > With cloud computing (TM hype) more popular, we have to think > about > > > >> > programming efficiency both in size and speed, because it's paid > by > > > IO > > > >> and > > > >> > time. > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > > This reminds me of a piece of wisom, that I try and remember from time to > time: > > "Pretty graphical interfaces are commonly called "user-friendly." But > they are not really your friends. Underlying every user-friendly > interface is a terrific human contempt. > > The basic idea of a graphical interface is that it does not allow > anything alarming to happen. You can pound on the mouse button all > you want, and the system will prevent you from doing anything stupid > ... > > To build such a crash-proof system, the designer must be able to > imagine - and disallow - the dumbest action. He or she cannot simply > rely on the user's intelligence: who knows who will be on the other > side of the program? Besides, the user's intelligence is not ... > programmable; it cannot protect the system. No, the real task is to > forget about the intelligent person on the other side and think of > every single stupid thing anyone might possibly do. > > In the designer's mind, gradually, over months and years, there is > created a vision of the user as imbecile. The imbecile vision is > mandatory. No good, crash-proof system can be built except it be > done for an idiot ... > > The prettier the user interface, and the fewer odd replies the system > allows you to make, the dumber you once appeared in the mind of the > designer." > > Ellen Ullman, "Out of Time: Reflections on the Programming Life," > in Brook and Boal, _Resisting the Virtual Life_. San Francisco, > City Lights, 1995. > (http://gandt.blogs.brynmawr.edu/files/2009/03/ullman.pdf, Section > VIII) > > > Robby > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
