Re: [Chevelle-list] bad news - ICP going under

[Wayne]

I live in the rust belt,,  E. PA.. in my life time I have seen ALL the Sewing mills cols up and go over seas,, I have witnessed the Shoe factories all close up and leave  why pay this Moms ( I have to be sexes because 95 5 of the employees were women in these jobs ) a  little over mim wage when you can go to India of Malaysia or Costa Rico and pay one Hours wage for a Full Days work.. Then there Bethlehem steel.. over 16.000 jobs lost.. then Mack Trucks,, Machines and fabricated 95 % of there own material.. and had a work force of 5600 now there 600 guys who assemble part  developed ,machined and sub assembled in 32 countries !!!  General Electric shut down there small appliance div  1100 jobs went to INDIA... this was all I in the 80,s and 90,s... allot of tears were shed and suffering by many..... But now the Jeanie who was let out of the Bottle is going after the White collar Jobs , the middle management ,, Engineering, Medicinal, Accounting jobs that were the fabric of Middle America.. Locally the MRI is sending it's digital image to India to be read and generate a report back to the Dr. and MRI center,... Cost local 300.00 Cost from India $35.00 !!!!!.. Local Developer seeks plans for a proposed building ( School ) Local Cost 80 to 130 K.. Send To the Baltic Eng. facilities 20 K.. and there staring to send project eng teams to the US ...   I have no answer .. But the BEAN counters say That's BUSINESS.. !!! I  have  a few good friends who own Public accounting firms, and  have lost some good size  accounts to overseas accounting shells. .So time will tell,  as to  will there opinion change now that there FAIR game  !!   Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Corgill To: The Chevelle Mailing List Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [Chevelle-list] bad news - ICP going under At 01:50 PM 11/07/2003, you wrote: Great discussion here guys and gals... lots of great posts came in while my slow fingers typed this out but here is my buck 85 worth :) That was very good, except I was talking about small shops. It is real easy to look at corporations out there and complain... but to anyone who has attempted to start their own business... it is a royal PIA. Start up costs are high for most areas (especially in machining and manufacturing) and many times at the beginning companies eat huge losses. But once you break even and pay things off.... you make tons of cash. BUT... keep in mind you have to stay up on top too. A huge problem is like what stated.... profits are expected and dividends are expected... There is the key "profits are Expected & dividends are expected. So let me tell you how this works at the small shops that are not on the stock market. I have seen auction notices for 3 years for machine shops that I have known for 30 yrs & their 100K machines go for 5K (if their lucky). This is what I have seen (I own a machine shop). The buyer (from a big company) request a quote on a job, the best price I can get on material (steel/ aluminum / whatever) for the part is $100.00. The machine work on that $100.00 material takes 10 hrs which is quoted at $60.00 an hr. Now before you think that's outrageous the machine tools (CNC) cost min 100K on up) & tools ain't cheap either, a 1/2" end mill costs $10.00 & you might use many on that job. So the shop quotes $700.00 for the job/part complete. The buyer at the big (wall street company) sends the quote to China. The buyer calls back & says you lost the job as the quote from China for the part total was.... $60.00. Just a little more that 1/2 of what your material cost in the USA. I have seen this over & over again. Something ain't right here & shops are dying all over the USA. Yes the part from China will not be made from the correct material & will not last long & may not work at all, in that case the PA will have to call the shop that lost the job to "fix" the part. Multiply this over & over shops. But by that time the shop in the USA may be out of business & the big company  will be in another "quarter" for showing profit in the stock market . It's all about instant paper profit. We are losing our ability to make anything in the USA, thanks to the "quarterly profit at any cost). Anybody think when we can't make anything here that wallmart's prices will still be cheap?