Thank You Deanna for putting so much time into explaining this. Actually you are the first person who has ever explained it in such detail, which is what I needed. I personally have always believed that dogs don't need all of those extra fillers because they are carnivorous by nature. I don't believe that fruits and veggies would harm them but I am not sure of what nutritional value they really would have on a dogs systems. I use to do a lot of research on wolves, especially with wildlife videos and people who actually studied them in the wild. I wanted to see just what they eat in the wild. Depending on which type of wolf and the area that it came from, I saw mostly of course deer, rabbits, caribou,cattle, chickens etc. In the winter months wolves have even resorted to catching and eating rodents. Berries off of bushes just before the severe winter would come in was also noted by one wildlife researcher. They were also seen eating different types of grasses after having digested a full meal. They believe that this may help them to digest their meal better. But it should be noted that I am sure these grasses are not the same that grows in our backyards.
What I do remember is that they rarely eat the bone or the lower intestines tract. They seem to gorge mainly only the whole meat of the animal.They have also been noted not to eat the hide of their kill, they left that to the scavengers. Maybe this is why so many dogs have a hard time digesting rawhide. The wolves seem to know they don't need it. When a wolf was seen with a bone, it was usually the leg of the deer or caribou, even then it was more of the wolf gnawing on it rather then to consume it. Which is why I have always been concerned about giving my dogs bones, and rawhide. Although I admit that I have given them a rawhide to gnaw on and try to remove it before they consume it. One time I gave Gigi a small rawhide she scared the life out of me because in minutes she had the knuckle off and when I went to grab it she swallowed it whole! It took three days for her to pass that chunk out and yet she still acted like she was always hungry because she has a bottomless pit for a tummy, Lol! Since then I have not given her any rawhide. What amazes me is that most of her teeth are missing, so she only has a couple of back teeth to really chew on. Which brings me to another question on the raw diet...if a dog doesn't have many teeth then they won't be able to chew the raw bone in it. So then not all dogs would be able to be on a raw diet? If it is possible and you find the time I would love to see pictures of you preparing a raw diet meal and what it looks like just before you feed your pack. Thanks so much for your input, it has been a great help to me. Peggy & The Girls --- In [email protected], Deanna Corey <myowndogp...@...> wrote: > > Hi Peggy, > > Dogs don't have issues with the same bacteria we do because they > are designed/created way differently than we are...it is kind of like > comparing > apples to oranges. Their stomach acids are WAY different as well as their > intestinal tract is VERY short...stuff doesn't fester in there long. > > The more I read about dog nutrition...the more I learned what they don't > need...what we as humans "think" they need is just not acurate! It makes us > feel > better to give dogs food that we know is healthy for us! Dogs were > designed/created as carnivores...meat eaters. They are not herbavoires or > omnivores that eat both. For me giving them the added things makes "ME" feel > better and I am thinking it won't be harmful. Plus...my little Chis get so > excited over veggies that it is like allowing my children to have candy. Our > children do not NEED candy...but they love it! It makes us feel better to > give > it to them...unless we are strong LOL! And...I can rationalize adding in > those > grains/veggies in my head with the knowledge that they eat the stomach > contents > of their kill in the wild...of herbivores...and really??? It just makes me > happy > to give them the candy! LOL! > > For anyone to buy in and understand raw feeding you have to believe the info > that our dogs are so very close to the wolf...their genes are only 1/3 of 1% > different than those of wild wolves. That is a very small difference! When > you > study a pack of healthy wolves you can really learn what is best for our own > dogs...even behavioral training can come from studying wolves...we can see it > in > how our own dogs play, nurture, protect etc. We have attempted to change > the > make-up of our dogs..we can change looks and to some extent temprament...but > mostly change is environmental. Think about it...it takes only one generation > for a dog to revert to a ferral state...remove our influence environmentally > and > back they go! We have not been able to genetically alter away it's original > design...all dog...from Chihuahua to Great Dane still are only 1/3 of 1% > difference in the genes from wolves. So to me at least...it makes sense to > know > what Wolves need to eat! Hence the species specific/raw/prey model/regional > diet. > > It isn't that feeding raw is the only way to feed!!! But I will tell you that > so > much of the issues our dogs have at present stem from our human influence on > their diets. Cancer...skin issues...allergies....seizures...etc. are all > results > of feeding a "man-concocted" diet. Dogs only need the supplementation because > the companies creating dog food have taken away or destroyed the actual > nutrients from the food dogs actually need! Raw diet...80/10/10 ratio has > EVERYTHING they need...it is all there...no supplemenation needed! 80% raw > fresh > muscle meat/10% edible bone/10% organs. > > Another point to mention...I feed only a quality of meat that I myself would > eat! Fresh, best quality and as much organic/free range/grass fed as > possible > when I can. Same with anything I feed anyone! With dog food companies their > "protein" is rendering plant junk, which can be dead and deseased animals, > road > kill etc. Very few companies use human grade meats! There are also the toxic > additives and fillers that companies use...plastics from China...rotted and > fermented grains etc. You have no control over what is in that bag...pets > die...food is recalled...and the cycle continues. I'll take my chances with > my > own purchases...my own knowledge...my own ingredients. > > Now Peggy...I am gonna tell you that these are just my opinions...based from > many years of learning...I am old!!! I am not a militant advocate on > raw-feeding! Everyone needs to come up with exactly what they think...what I > am > militant about however is that EVERY pet owner has the obligation to do the > research and come up with their own conclusions...don't take someones word > for > it...do your own leg-work...see what changes you yourself can create based on > your own dog's needs!!! I believe what I believe because of how it > changed MY > house...MY dogs!! It may not be the same for you!...or anyone for that > matter! I > sing it's praises because I have experienced first hand what it has done for > me...period! > > I am adding in an email I just wrote a few days back helping someone who has > decided to try raw with their dogs. I add it only in case you or anyone has > questions...not to persuade anyone to switch to raw...just stuff I have > learned...all here in one place LOL > > Here it is: > Raw can be such an amazing way to go...and it is so much easier than most > people > think! It can benefit so many things...coat, teeth, breath, skin, ears, yeast > infections, UTI infections etc. It also is just about as cheap as a good dog > food...or can be if you shop well. >  > First thing you need to know is ratios and what they mean. When feeding a raw > diet the ratio is 80% raw fresh muscle meat...a variety like lamb, beef, > chicken, turkey, pork etc. 10% bone...edible bone from parts of the animals > that > are not weigh bearing...such as chicken wings, necks, oxtails, pork ribs > etc. 10% organs...which are liver and kidney. Both hearts and Gizzardsare > considered muscle meat. That totals 100%...that is all you feed them on a raw > diet...no grains...no fruits or veggies...when you have food allergiesor skin > issues most of the culprits are found in these last items...grains, fruits > and > veggies! >  > Now...how much to feed is you next decision. The rule of thumb is to feed > 2-3% > of your dog's ADULT body weight. I feed 3.5% because I have active dogs. This > is > not a fast and hard rule... it is a guidline...but a great place to start. > Once > you get underway you can adjust depending on whether your dog is getting too > fat > or too thin. So...lets say you have a 10lb dog. 3% of 10 lbs is 4.8oz...here > is > how I arrived there: >  > I took the weight of dog and multiply by 16 (the # of oz in a lb)...so a 10 > lb > dog would weigh 160 oz. Then multiply 160 by 3% on a calculator...the answer > is > 4.8...which in now your magic number...the amount of OUNCES to feed your > dog....roughly 1/4 of a lb of meat/organ/bone. I would break this up into 2-3 > feedings for little ones. >  > Now...your next decision is what meat to start with. I started with > chicken...chicken breasts actually because I read that chicken breast meat > was > the easiet to digest for a dog. and...the bones are very crunchable and > safe...no splintering. Once I knew my dogs could and would thouroughly CRUNCH > through bones, I started adding in many other things. Now..I have some very > small dogs...2 tiny Chihuahuas in my pack. I bought a grinder that would > handle > chicken bones like butter...it is called the Maverick and I paid $99 and > bought > it from www.pierceequipment.com > ...awesome little workhourse. I don't worry about bone splinters now! >  > If you think about general cost...I can buy good chicken like Foster > Farms ...not enhanced...you want to stay away from "PLUMPED or > enhanced"...for > $.99 a lb...if you buy a whole chicken you get the necks, the organs the > whole > enchilada...balance right there! I take off a lot or most of the skin...but > in > reality their food is .99 a lb. I was buying quality dog food...for $53.00 > for a > 40lb bag...thats $1.32 a lb...so chicken is cheaper. I can usually get beef > for > under $2.00 a lb...so it really does balance out. Shopping sales...going to > ethnic markets...etc all help with variety and cost. I have discoverd so many > off the wall items that my dogs just LOVE!!! Heart...oxtails, green tripe, > chicken feet, necks, hooves, etc...and they are so happy!!! >  > Benefits: Here is what I can tell you that changed for my pack! > 1. First of all I have a poodle with seizures...they went from one or more a > week to one every 38 days...just from going raw. We are entering a phase of > more > right now but the raw diet changed things IMMEDIATLY in that area. > 2. The yeast infections that plagued my Shih Tzu have completely gone > away...only course of action was changing diet to raw. > 3. Coats on ALL my dogs got thicker, shinier, softer and filled in...on > everyone! > 4. Teeth got MUCH cleaner and whiter...tarter and plaque no longer exsist in > my > pack. Our dental check up last month for everyone astounded my vet!! > 5. Fresh breath!!! YEAH!!!! > 6. Stools became firm...way less than before...and basically turn to ash if > left > a day!...white powder...my vet says that means WAY less waste and more > nutrients > for my dogs!!! > 7. More balanced energy in everyone. My poodle has "anxious" issues and > having > this diet has balanced out his head!!! LOVE that!!!! > 8. Everyone's weights balanced out...none too fat...none too thin...just > right!!! > 9. I know EXACTLY what is in their food! I have no fears of recalls, > rendering > plants, rancid food, poor quailty. >  > There are lots of groups and websites to join or visit...just do a search and > start reading. I belong to a few...some of them are almost militant...so just > use common sense...read and think!!! Leave what sounds nuts to you and go > with > your own gut and you will be fine!!! They are a great resource though for > information...so use them! >  > I hope this helps you and if you have any other questions...just ask...I > would > be happy to help if I can! > Waggin' Tails in The Dog Park, > Deanna > >                                                             and >  The Dog Park Pack: > Nugget, Shuai-Li, Mouse, Myrtle, Mable,andCaleb and honorary non-dog > members of > The Dog Park: > > Stella-Macaw, Stanley-Amazon, Miles the cat > www.joys4toys.com >  > Waggin' Tails in The Dog Park, > Deanna > >                                                             and >  The Dog Park Pack: > Nugget, Shuai-Li, Mouse, Myrtle, Mable,and Caleb and honorary non-dog > members > of The Dog Park: > > Stella-Macaw, Stanley-Amazon, Miles the cat > www.joys4toys.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Peggy & The Girls <phr...@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, November 9, 2010 12:46:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Who Has To Feed Their Chi By Hand? > >  > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Deanna Corey <myowndogp...@...> > To: Chihuahuas <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 2:54 pm > Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Who Has To Feed Their Chi By Hand? > > >  > I do feed Miss Myrtle by hand...she just eats more that way and I know > exactly > what she is eating...she is so small compared to the other dog park > constituents > LOL! Ok...I do have a confession...and I am sure this would give any real > "dog > trainer" fits...but i LOVE to feed them all by hand...especially breakfast! > It > is our time to bond together all as a group...a pack!! I measure/weigh out > the > amounts for each one and put that amount in their bowls and then line up the > 5 > bowls on my coffee table. They line up at my feet and sit and wait their turn > as > I give each one their bite from my fingers until all bowls are empty...we > work > on "sit", lay, beg, shake, roll over etc during this time each morning. It > does > take awhile to feed everyone but I just love his time with them! I painted > each > bowl with their names so it really helps me keep track of who is getting > what. > Please guys...don't bash me for this...I really enjoy this time with them and > I > see many positives...I know it isn't the "correct" thing to do but I bet the > "trainers" wouldn't like me dressing them up either LOL!!! > > The "littles" get three meals a day and the others get two and usually > dinner > everyone just eats from their own bowl in a line on the kitchen floor. > Everyone > stays with their own bowl except for Mable the Boston...she doesn't quite > have > the idea yet but she is getting better everyday. She is my little piggy and > would visit everyone's portions if I would let her LOL! I use to have a POt > Belly pig years ago...and I miss Pignellope like crazy...I always talk about > getting another someday! I have to say though with the addition of this > little > snorting, snoring, wiggly piggy Mable...she kind of fits that bill! LOL > > I need to clarify that this is the feeding routine when I grind their raw. If > I > am feeding whole pieces then we do the line on the deck outside as they need > to > use the floor to help them chew things up...I am not a fan of raw pieces > being > wiped ccross my kitchen floor---yuck!!! I do grind chicken and deer and > rabbit > so the time they get "pieces" is ribs, oxtail, lamb shoulder or necks which > is > just once or twice a week. That way they can keep the bones outside to play > with > on the deck for a few days. > > Another confession...I just started adding quinoa, a little brown rice or > organic oats with some chopped organic veggies to their ground raw meat > w/bone. > I want to put on a bit of weight for winter...not me...them LOL...so hence > the > small amounts of grain. For some reason once I tried that Honest Kitchen and > saw > how wild they went for the veggies I just decided to add them in as well!!! I > don't think it will hurt them and I know raw feeders are 100% against grains > of > any kind or veggies but when ya think about it...in the wild..the first thing > to > be eaten from the pray is the stomach contents of an herbivore...guess whats > in > there?? Seeds, grains, grasses, fruits and veggies...so a tad shouldn't be > horrible!!! >  > Waggin' Tails in The Dog Park, > Deanna > >                                                             and >  The Dog Park Pack: > Nugget, Shuai-Li, Mouse, Myrtle, Mable,and Caleb and honorary non-dog > members > of The Dog Park: > > Stella-Macaw, Stanley-Amazon, Miles the cat > www.joys4toys.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Kavi <kaviescontin...@...> > To: Chihuahuas <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, November 8, 2010 10:02:31 PM > Subject: [Chihuahuas] Who Has To Feed Their Chi By Hand? > >  > Hi everyone > > I know, I know what some will say. If you leave the food long enough they > will > eat on their own. Yes, that can be true. Ricky has been eating pretty good. > He > is now spoiled with my hubby feeding him our food! Now he is trying to hold > out. > He will eat his dog food (wellness canned) IF I NOW HAND FEED IT TO HIM. He > did > not eat his dog food all day. I had to dump a couple servings coz it got old. > so > for my dinner tonight I decided to have tomato soup. and guess what Ricky had > to > have?? yup... Tomato soup! with bread in it. that he ate on his own. LOL > > any one else have to do this handfeeding or just do it because? > > Shanna > > > What I don't understand about feeding raw is how come the dogs don't get > E-coli > and the such? They say that beef and chicken is loaded with E-coli and > that's > why it should be thoroughly cooked. Uncooked pork can give you worms. So how > come the dogs don't get any bacterias from uncooked meats? > > Also, dogs do need other nutrients to give them all the essential vitamins > and > minerals, so what do raw feeders supplement their diet with? > > > ⥠Peggy & The Girls ⥠> ------------------------------------ " Lets talk about our wonderful little friends! Join today! " Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chihuahuas/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chihuahuas/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
