Marlborough was a skillful general and the British are quite right in being proud of him, but do we really consider Louis XIV as a threat to Western civilization? It might actually be argued that France is part of Western civilization, which may be a concept that seems alien at start, but I suspect it will actually begin to make sense once you start to think about it. ;)
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:24 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Actually twice if you count marlbourgh > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carey Stronach <[email protected]> > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 03:40:11 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] WINSTON - THIS ONE IS WORSE THAN THE TELEGRAPH !! > > Wasn't one savior of western civilization from one specific family enough? > What does this claque expect? > Carey E. Stronach, Ph.D. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 00:28:09 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] WINSTON - THIS ONE IS WORSE THAN THE TELEGRAPH !! > > I have to say I agree with you. I always considered Max Hastings to be an > accurate source of knowledge with a non-bias to politics when it came to > reporting history. Clearly, if this is an example of his writings, maybe the > accuracy of his books should be questioned by professional historians who > regard factual history as imperative, not optional. I feel saddened to write > this comment and would be grateful if you would post it on the blog. > > You know, if not for Winston, don't these insensitive fools care about his > family? > > Thanks, > > Jonathan > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: richard geschke <[email protected]> > Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 22:33:07 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] WINSTON - THIS ONE IS WORSE THAN THE TELEGRAPH !! > > > Max Hastings is a well known historical Author who is well known and > respected in his field. However, this piece he has written is highly > opinionated and in essence rather uppity and snobbish. Even his thoughts in > his book "Armageddon" were critical of the Western Allies armed services in > World War II. In retrospect his books are well researched but he also forms > opinions which are just that, opinions. In this instance Hastings should > have taken the better course of valor and pass on writing his opinions of > Winston Churchill the grandson. > > Richard C. Geschke > > > From: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 23:46:07 -0500 > Subject: [ChurchillChat] WINSTON - THIS ONE IS WORSE THAN THE TELEGRAPH !! > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > debate > > > > > > > > > Like so many who live in the shadow of greatness, > Winston the Younger was cursed from birth > > > By Max Hastings > Last updated at 10:13 AM on 04th March 2010 > > > > > > > Should you wish to lay a blessing on a child, pray that he or she may bear a > name nobody knows. > > Winston Churchill, who died on Tuesday at the age of 69, was cursed with one > that no man could live up to. The grandson of the greatest of Englishmen, his > life was spent shackled to his birthright as if to a ball and chain. > > Young Winston might have been happier had he become a tree surgeon or a stamp > collector. As it was, in his youth he tried being a war correspondent, and > people shrugged that he wrote nothing as good as his grandfather's dispatches > from South Africa. > > > > > Hard act to follow: Winston Churchill never matched his grandfather > He became a Conservative MP in 1970 before he was 30, and the world waited in > vain for him to deliver great speeches. > > He aspired to be a statesman, but never even achieved ministerial office > because he persistently defied his party's leadership in pursuit of > ill-judged, Right-wing causes. > > His own father Randolph asserted bitterly: 'Nothing grows in the shadow of a > great oak tree.' > > > > > The strain of bearing a name that was instantly recognised from Canberra to > Calcutta, of fulfilling expectations beyond the reach of most mortals, > burdened young Winston from the cradle to the grave. It would have pained his > grandfather immeasurably to see how little happiness or respect the family > heritage brought him. > A cynic might suggest that great men should take care to have no progeny. > > > Try to imagine what it is like to be surrounded from infant-hood by people > for ever invoking the spirit of one's parent or ancestor. > > The sorrows that beset the Churchill family are familiar to many towering > figures of history. Emperors and kings, generals and statesmen, writers, > painters and tycoons have alike discovered that their offspring often suffer > for their own fame and achievements, because brilliance so seldom passes from > one generation to the next. > > Among the legendary figures of old Winston Churchill's time, President > Franklin Roosevelt's four children led notably unsuccessful lives. > > Stalin's son, renounced by his father, died as a prisoner of the Nazis, while > his daughter Svetlana wrote an entire book about why she hated Russia's > warlord. > > As adults, the children of almost all the great commanders of World War II > achieved at best obscurity, at worst notoriety. > > Try to imagine what it is like to be surrounded from infant-hood by people > for ever invoking the spirit of one's parent or ancestor, saying - as they > often did to young Winston - 'Your grandfather would have done this'; 'Your > grandfather would have wanted that'; 'Your grandfather would have done that > differently.' > > Such people usually intended no ill-will. They merely wished to worship at > the family shrine. But their words bore heavily on the name-bearer. > > Few of history's geniuses have been wilfully unkind to their progeny. Most of > their family problems have derived from circumstances, not malevolence. > > > > Legacy: Sir Winston Churchill > Old Winston's life was dominated by memories of the cruelty and remoteness of > his own father, Lord Randolph Churchill, who predicted the worst for his > sluggish schoolboy son, and died before the boy embarked on his path to glory. > > In old Winston's last years, his daughter Mary asked if he had any > unfulfilled ambitions. He answered slowly, and intolerably movingly: 'I > should have liked my father to live long enough to see that I made something > of my life.' The scars were still there. > > The great statesman, by contrast, lavished love on his own five children. On > his only son Randolph, in particular, he heaped passionate hopes and > ambitions. > > > From Randolph's earliest years, his father made him a privileged companion, > inciting his precocious dinner table rants, forgiving his drunkenness, > promoting a starry political future for him. > > The consequences were disastrous. Randolph, grossly indulged, learned to > bellow intemperate opinions at the most unsuitable moments. He gambled as > recklessly as a young duke, acted the boor among great and humble folk alike. > > > When he underwent surgery for a tumour which was found to be non-malignant, > Evelyn Waugh famously observed that it was a typical triumph of medical > science 'to find the only part of Randolph that was not malignant and remove > it'. > > Randolph's cleverness and fluency were undoubted, but he was bankrupt of > judgment. He possessed all his father's vices, but only a smidgeon of his > gifts, notably as a talented writer. > > When Randolph briefly became an MP in 1940, the U.S. military attache; in > London wrote in his diary: 'Young Churchill is probably the least-liked son > of a famous father in this country and only got into the Commons by virtue of > his father's position.' > > Randolph's extravagance was appalling, and beyond his father's means. In > 1942, Lord Beaverbrook paid his gambling debts. What would the world say > today if a prime minister's son turned to a press lord to fund his lifestyle? > > When he underwent surgery for a tumour which was found to be non-malignant, > Evelyn Waugh famously observed that it was a typical triumph of medical > science 'to find the only part of Randolph that was not malignant and remove > it'. > > Winston once grumbled wretchedly: 'I love Randolph, but I don't like him.' > This, surely, was a dreadful remark for a father to be driven to make about > his son. > > Randolph married the famously beautiful Pamela Digby, an aristocratic > showjumper whose athleticism soon extended to other fields. But the alliance > did not last. > > > > > Winston Churchill was often compared to his grandfather, pictured in 1946 > In her later years, an unkind wit described her as 'a world expert on rich > men's bedroom ceilings'. She married the U.S. millionaire Averell Harriman, > and eventually became U.S. ambassador in Paris during the Clinton presidency. > > These two, then, were young Winston's parents. He himself was born at the > summit of his grandfather's glory, in October 1940, the hour of victory in > the Battle of Britain. > > It was a cruel kindness of his parents to confer on him the greatest name on > earth. In adulthood, he strove clumsily to be worthy of it. Yet again and > again, he attached himself to bad causes, or at least pleaded good causes > without wisdom. > > His character was flawed by a strand of silliness, the more injurious because > his name ensured that his utterances could always gain an audience. > > An ardent Cold Warrior, he espoused a brand of cheap nationalism which often > embarrassed his party. Though he never earned much money, he sought to > sustain a rich man's lifestyle by exploiting the family heritage. > > He severely tarnished his reputation by promoting a nasty deal for the family > trust's sale of the Churchill papers to the nation for £12.5 million, when > the nation properly owned many of them already. > > His personal life sometimes verged on the tawdry, not least during his > much-publicised affair with Mrs Adnan Khashoggi, the wife of a Saudi arms > dealer. > > Young Winston was not a bad man, but he did some bad things, because he > possessed a conceit unsupported by many brains. > > Few of us would judge him too harshly, however, because his predicament > deserves sympathy. The Churchill name brought him little happiness or > contentment, only the knowledge that the world was saying brutally: 'Well, > he's no chip off the old block.' > > Among Winston Churchill's five children, the only one to achieve real > fulfillment and to confer lasting honour on her generation is, of course, the > youngest, Mary Soames. > > She was a brilliant wife to Christopher Soames as politician, Paris > ambassador and EU Commissioner, a fine chairman of the National Theatre, and > a pillar of innumerable good causes. > > Prodigious Mary has shown us that it is possible to bear fame without > pretension, to spread fun and goodwill everywhere in her path, to carry the > torch for her awesome parents as if it was feather light. > > Few people can glimpse her at a party or spend an hour in her company without > falling under her spell. She has shown how a great legacy can and should be > worn. > > Poor young Winston was less lucky, partly because he was less gifted. If we > were to wish him one stroke of fortune in the place to which he has now gone, > it might be that no one up there should be told who his grandfather was. > > > > > Print this article > > Read later > Email to a friend > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ChurchillChat" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat?hl=en. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ChurchillChat" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ChurchillChat" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ChurchillChat" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ChurchillChat" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/churchillchat?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ChurchillChat" group. 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