Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication

chateaustegosaurus Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:18:08 -0700

I would certainly be the last to ever question Prof. Muller's integrity or 
depth of scholarship.  My query, as Mr. Turrell points out, had to do with the 
never-ending vanishing publication dates.  Any academic publisher deals with 
niche markets  -  I have a book "The Latin Inscriptions of Rome" written by a 
friend and published by Johns Hopkins Press.  Now that's a pretty niche market, 
but it came out pretty much on the schedule Johns Hopkins said it would.  St. 
Augustine's Press is doing its potential customers a dis-service with their 
continuing changing publishing dates.  I feel St. Augustine would NOT approve.
Jonathan Hayes

      From: Dave Turrell <[email protected]>
 To: [email protected] 
 Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 8:39 PM
 Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication

Chris has, in many 
ways, hit the nail on the head.  I do not believe that any of us on this 
distro, and particularly those of us who have met or corresponded with Prof. 
Muller, would have any truck with impugning anything related to his 
professionalism, dedication, or attention to detail.  At the same time, the 
publisher who produces a full text version of The River War is to be admired.  
It is, as Lee points out, a niche market and we should have no sense of 
entitlement in regards to seeing it.  But, as yet , St. Augustine have earned 
no admiration.  They have talked the talk, but the walk is conspicuous by its 
absence.   As Chris notes, I think what sticks most in the craw is the 
seemingly endless stream of hypothetical publication dates, spanning more than 
ten years.  I’m not sure if, in the modern business world, this is technically 
known as ‘public relations’, ‘advertising’, or good old fashioned ‘mendacity’, 
but it is certainly insulting to the audience.  When, and if, the publication 
finally happens I shall no doubt praise St. Augustine to the skies. Until then 
I must continue to regard them as all mouth and trousers J.  Dave   From: 
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Chris Bell
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 7:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication  I would like to echo Lee's 
comments. I was lucky enough to hear Jim Muller speak about the new edition of 
the River War in Paris this month, and the work that has gone into this new 
edition is monumental. It takes time to do something like this properly, and we 
are all fortunate that Jim is taking the time to ensure that it is done right. 
There are, I notice, a few other "new" editions of the River War floating 
around these days, but these all appear to be simply the text of the abridged 
edition without editorial input of any kind, let alone any of the annotations, 
footnotes, or scholarly apparatus that Lee refers to. I suspect these are the 
result of lazy publishers looking to make a quick buck now that the book has 
entered the public domain in the USA (if I understand it correctly).

I do not understand why the St Augustine's Press has insisted for so long in 
promising that the book is on the verge of publication when they must have 
known that that was not actually the case. They have cried wolf so often that I 
don't blame people for being frustrated and sceptical. But I certainly got the 
impression that we really are getting close to publication this time. 

We just need to be patient a little longer. It will be worth the wait. 

Chris

On 2015-10-19 11:01 PM, Lee Pollock wrote:
On behalf of The Churchill Centre, I would like to offer some comments on the 
various recent messages regarding Jim Muller’s edition of The River War. I 
cannot speak directly for Jim and/or the publisher and certainly this work has 
been in process for a long time. That said, I hope we all recognize and 
remember what an enormous effort is involved in producing this.  The St. 
Augustine website aptly notes: Editor James W. Muller’s more than fifteen years 
of research adds thousands of new footnotes identifying people who figure in 
The River War, explaining Churchill’s references to other books and events, 
tracking down the original dispatches and illustrations, and establishing a 
text that encompasses all variations in previous editions. Jim has been working 
assiduously on this for some years, while teaching full-time as well as 
remaining involved in and highly supportive of many other things in the 
Churchill world, including the work of the Centre.  We are most grateful for 
his continued support. Again, I can’t speak specifically for either Jim or St. 
Augustine but I would caution against the thought that the long time frame is 
the publisher’s fault or that they have somehow been deliberately dragging this 
out.   The suggestion that there should be a change of publisher is easy to 
make but in a challenging publishing environment generally, this is a niche 
product and having someone else step up is easier said than done, even if that 
were desirable.  I don’t know the nature of Jim’s arrangements with St. 
Augustine but I don’t think it’s correct suggest that they “commissioned” him 
to produce this or that they provided some significant advance for it.  (Jim 
would probably say, “would that were so…”) I hope this clarifies the situation 
and I will ask Jim to provide any updates he can on the timing of publication. 
This will be a landmark in Churchill books and I hope all of the members of 
this Chat Group will buy a copy.  It will surely be worth having and reading. 
Thanks. Lee Lee PollockExecutive DirectorThe Churchill Centre(312) 
[email protected]  From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 3:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication So River War is still under 
copyright. Jonathan Hayes From: Allen Packwood <[email protected]>
To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]> 
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication British copyright law in 
published material is 70 years from the date of the death of the author. Allen  
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: 19 October 2015 16:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication Not sure about British 
copyright laws but anything published in the US prior to 1923 is out of 
copyright and in the public domain. Hillsdale College has been reprinting a lot 
of the official biography companion volumes.  Wonder if they'd be interested? 
Jonathan Hayes From: 'Mark Lowrey' via ChurchillChat 
<[email protected]>
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication Even a Taiwan bootleg 
edition  would suffice.   -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Turrell <[email protected]>
To: churchillchat <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Oct 18, 2015 7:01 pm
Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] River War PublicationIt’s been going on for at 
least 11 years to my personal knowledge.  As the Texans might say, this would 
appear to be a publisher that is all hat and no cattle… or, as we Brits might 
prefer it, all mouth and trousers. Their lesser known publication of Savrola 
remains equally ethereal. My guess would be if Prof. Muller was paid to do the 
editing and annotation work then St. Augustine’s is pretty much bullet-proof in 
their choice as to when or if to publish it.  I see no reason, however, that 
the vanilla text of The River War should not be republished as is – I cannot 
imagine that St. Augustine’s bought the copyright to that.  If it can be done 
then it would be a great service to Churchill bibliography – the full text has 
not been published since the first edition of 1899/1900. Dave From: 
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication St. Augustine's Press still has 
The River War under "Forthcoming Books", yet still no publication date.  This 
has been going on for a donkey's years  -  has Prof. Muller considered dropping 
these people and going with some publisher who's actually willing to publish?  
It would seem that if he has a contract that St. Augustine's Press' lack of 
performance would be sufficient reason to abandon ship. Just a thought. 
Jonathan Hayes-- 
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-- Dr. Christopher M. BellProfessor, Department of HistoryDalhousie 
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Re: [ChurchillChat] River War Publication

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