Dear John and Don,
Many thanks for taking the trouble to look up the passage in Douglas
Russell's book - indeed it very convingly settles the question.
By the way, as is often the case, when you look for a book, you find another
one. In this instance, searching my piles for Douglas Russell's book I
chanced upon Michael Paterson's Winston Churchill : His Military Life (David
& Charles, 2005). For WSC's final rank, Paterson follows Randolph in the OB
: 20/130 (p.74). But he makes no comments, though the chapter makes it clear
that he is familiar with My Early Life.
The whole discussion raises two very interesting problems :
-One, excellently pointed out by John, bears on the reliability of WSC's
autobiographical writings. If he distorts the factual truth here - where
else is he distorting it in his vast output ? It would be extremely valuable
if Subscribers shared their other discoveries in the field of discrepancies
between what WSC wrote for publication* and actual fact.
-The other bears on filial piety : no doubt Sir Martin Gilbert would have
given a footnote discussing, or at least mentioning the discrepancy.
Randolph's silence and quiet correction show that a son or close relative is
not the ideal biographer of a great man.
*Mary Soames and Sir Martin Gilbert often draw attention in their notes to
errors of dating in his private correspondence with Clementine and
acquaintances. But this is not the same as failing to check what you write
in an autobiography.
Best wishes to all,
A.C.
==============
From: Johnmather via ChurchillChat
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: Douglas Russell's book and the discrepancy
in WSC's r...
Dear Don,
You just beat me to the punch, as I had just finished reviewing my copy of
Doug's book.
I think this settles the matter. WSC was not above several embellishments
in his autobiography "My Early Life'. For example the story he gives of
dislocating his shoulder is credible but may not have happened the way he
describes. The issue of how badly he was hurt in the fall in 1893. His
account does not entirely ring true medically. is problematic.
I wonder if anyone has done a very careful and detailed review of "My Early
Life" for accuracy and fully consistent with other evidence.
The book is a great read and well recommended to those just coming who want
something quick and entertaining (ie the text is not boring) but, with WSC's
penchant for "self promotion" and 'hyperbole' in his writing this may not be
the best book. Can't think of an alternative right now that is as engaging
and well written.
I wonder if Richard Langworth has a particular perspective on "My Early
Life."
John H. Mather MD FACPE
240 353 6782
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/28/2015 4:33:23 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Dear Antoine:
Please find below the direct quotes from Mr. Russell's book.
To be honest, I think Mr. Russell can definitively answer your question,
which would be the best course to get the professional's opinion on who was
correct, Randolph or Sir Winston. Hopefully that will provide you exactly
what you are looking for?
Page 68:
"This was a good report indeed with improvement in every subject but Tactics
where he lost but a percentage point from his intermediate term marks. His
exact class standing is a matter of debate among the family historians.
Churchill in his autobiography claimed to have passed out of Sandhurst 'with
honours' eighth out of 150 saying, 'I mention this because it shows I could
learn quickly enough the things that mattered.' In the first volume of the
official biography of Churchill which was written by his son Randolph, the
class standing is giving as twentieth out of 130. A review of the original
records at Sandhurst shows the official biography to be correct as to both
the number of cadets in Churchill's intake and his ranking according to the
number of final marks."
Mr. Russell goes on to explain perhaps Churchill's statement that "he passed
out of Sandhurst 'with honours'. The author goes on to state, "We may
certainly conclude Churchill passed out of Sandhurst honourably and with
very high marks. He had the second highest total of marks for a cavalry
cadet trailing Greenley (Senior Corporal, Under Officer Howarth Greenley) by
only 74 marks of a possible 3,450 and was twentieth highest overall.
Because he (Churchill)did not have cadet rank as an under-officer he was not
in the running for the Sword of Honour. It was, nevertheless, the greatest
academic achievement of Churchill's school years and deserving of much
credit."
Best wishes for 2016 and good luck with your research.
Sincerely,
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 2:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Douglas Russell's book and the discrepancy in
WSC's rank when he left Sandhurst
Dear Don,
As I said to Dr Mather, I cannot at the moment lay my hands on my copy of
Douglas Russell's book.
Could you please tell us the substance of his conclusions ? Who is right -
father or son ?
Best wishes,
A.C.
==========
From: Donald Jakeway
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 8:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ChurchillChat] Re: discrepancy in WSC's rank when he left
Sandhurst
Dear Antoine:
Dr. Mather’s recommendation is a very good one as it appears that Douglas
Russell does attempt to clarify this issue on page 68 and 69 of his
excellent book, “Winston Churchill – SOLDIER – The Military Life of a
Gentleman at War.”
Hope this helps!
Sincerely,
Don
Donald E. Jakeway
Co-Chair
Churchill Centre South TX
170 Grassmarket
San Antonio, TX 78259
210-845-2405
[email protected]
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 1:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ChurchillChat] Re: discrepancy in WSC's rank when he left
Sandhurst
Dear Antoine,
I bet Doug Russell can clarify this. His book "Churchill SOLDIER" may have
the answer.
I have copied him on this email.
John H. Mather MD FACPE
240 353 6782
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/28/2015 12:48:43 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Dear All,
May I tap your expert knowledge once more ?
I am curently writing a Dictionnaire Churchill for a French publisher.
Earlier today, I was working on the Sandhurst entry, and found a discrepancy
in WSC's rank when he left.
In vol 1 of the OB, Randolph writes :
He passed out 20th in a class of 130 (Heinemann, first page of Chapter 7, p.
242)
WSC himself writes in My Early Years :
I passed out with honours eighth out of my batch of a hundred and fifty
(Penguin, p. 66)
How can that be explained ?
With all best wishes for the coming year,
A.C.
Professor Antoine CAPET, FRHistS
Head of British Studies
University of Rouen
76821 Mont-Saint-Aignan
France
[email protected]
'Britain since 1914' Section Editor
Royal Historical Society Bibliography
Reviews Editor of CERCLES
http://www.cercles.com/review/reviews.html
==========================================
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