http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/837/intrvw.htm
Published in Cairo by AL-AHRAM established in 1875
Fingerprints of history
Gamal Nkrumah and Mohamed El-Sayed gauge the state of the world's most troubled
region -- the Middle East -- with eminent author Robert Fisk
Click to view caption
'I believe that a branch of Syrian Baath Party security assassinated
Al-Hariri. I don't say, however, that [Syrian President] Bashar Al-Assad was
involved. I don't think it was sanctioned from the top'
'There is a country in the region that has lots of Taliban supporters,
lots of Al-Qaeda supporters, whose capital city is in constant chaos and
sectarian crisis, and it has got a [nuclear] bomb -- it's called Pakistan'
'Last summer's war between Hizbullah and Israel was in fact between Iran
and America. Lebanon is, as usual, the battlefield of others'
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It is Pakistan, not Iran or Iraq, that serves as a true barometer for the
future of the region, according to Robert Fisk, The Independent 's renowned
Middle East correspondent. This thesis, though novel, is not to be taken
lightly. It comes from a man who has lived in, studied and witnessed the region
for the past three decades. And Pakistan, indeed, is a country in turmoil.
Fisk, the Beirut-based bestselling and award- winning author, speaks from
experience. He covered the Lebanese civil war, the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s,
the two United States-led wars against Iraq and the post-11 September invasion
and subsequent occupation of Afghanistan. His voice is a "passionate outcry
against the lies and deceit that have sent soldiers to their deaths and killed
tens of thousands of men and women," as the dustcover of his seminal book, The
Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East, so aptly puts it.
For Fisk to single out Pakistan is an eye- opener, for the populous
predominantly Muslim nation is not even considered by some to be part of the
Middle East proper. Fisk's contention, however, is that the West is shy to
focus on the main game, preferring instead to concentrate on sideshows such as
Iran's nuclear ambitions, which Fisk reminds whoever listens were first
encouraged and nurtured by the West.
"There is a country in the region that has lots of Taliban supporters, lots of
Al-Qaeda supporters, whose capital city is in constant chaos and sectarian
crisis, and it has got a [nuclear] bomb -- it's called Pakistan," Fisk told
Al-Ahram Weekly. "But General Musharraf is our (the West's) friend. What will
happen if Musharraf goes? Pakistan is one of the most fragile and dangerous
areas," he ponders ominously. "However, we direct our attention to another
country, Iran, just as we always do in the Middle East."
Few Westerners are qualified to write an adequate history of the Middle East,
but Fisk is one who is. His first-hand reporting over three decades much
informs his analysis of the social and political upheavals witnessed in the
region during the past 150 years -- upheavals that have been both dramatic and
drastic and entailed much bloodshed and suffering. The ultimate upheaval was
the creation of the State of Israel in the heart of the Arab world and the
dispossession of the Palestinian people in the process.
Fisk is acutely aware, nonetheless, of a certain basic continuity experienced
across the Middle East in recent history. The saga of tragedy and betrayal has
not been confined to Palestine. Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan all
experienced the horrors of war and violent turmoil. Fisk is an advocate for the
study of history. "Journalists should not just take notebooks when covering a
story," he insists.
For Fisk, history is personal and the personal is political. "The knights of
the First Crusade," he wrote in his book, The Great War for Civilisation,
"after massacring the entire population of Beirut, had moved along the very
edge of the Mediterranean towards Jerusalem to avoid the arrows of the Arab
archers; and I often reflected that they must have travelled over the very
Lebanese rocks around which the sea frothed and gurgled opposite my balcony."
"I have photographs on my apartment walls of the French fleet off Beirut in
1918 and the arrival of General Henri Gouraud, the first French mandate
governor, who travelled to Damascus and stood at that most green-draped of
tombs in the Ummayad mosque and, in what must have been one of the most
inflammatory statements in modern Middle East history, told the tomb: 'Saladin,
we have returned,'" Fisk muses. "Nowadays, there are 22 times as many Western
troops in the Islamic world than there were before the fall of Jerusalem during
the Crusades in 1187," Fisk notes.
What about Lebanon now? "Last summer's war between Hizbullah and Israel was in
fact between Iran and America. Lebanon is, as usual, the battlefield of others.
No one is being killed now, so until now it's okay. However, the situation is
very fragile. I know many Christian families who left their homes in Hamra
Street, moving on to other areas. These are very bad signs. Iran and America
are supporting different sides, and they keep pushing at this fragile state."
As Fisk notes in his celebrated book Pity the Nation, Lebanon is a microcosm of
the Middle East. "Lebanon is a confessional society, so if this pushing
continues it will split and be Balkanised. The only solution is for Lebanon to
become a modern state. Leadership qualities, rather than tribal or sectarian or
confessional affiliations, should be [credentials] for top positions," he told
the Weekly. "Thousands of Lebanese children were sent abroad during the civil
war, and they came back believing in a modern society. They saw the civil war
was ridiculous and childish," he adds.
What about the assassination of Rafiq Al-Hariri? "I believe that a branch of
Syrian Baath Party security assassinated Al-Hariri. I don't say, however, that
[Syrian President] Bashar Al-Assad was involved. I don't think it was
sanctioned from the top. I was walking on Beirut's corniche, 400 metres away,
when it happened. I got there before anyone and before the police. I saw Hariri
on fire in the street. His socks were burning. And when I asked one Lebanese
who was assassinated, he told me it was Hariri."
Will the truth of the assassination ever come out? "I think one reason why the
Syrians are cooperating [in the investigation] is that the Syrians are pretty
sure of what exactly happened, for they have a very good intelligence service.
My interpretation is that it wasn't a state murder. Since the assassination and
up until now I still feel it was a branch of Syrian Baath security."
What about Iran and Afghanistan? "America failed to achieve its goals in
Afghanistan. There is no democracy there -- warlords rule. Just like the case
in Iraq, the government commands just a few miles around Kabul. In many
situations coalition forces find themselves outnumbered by hundreds of Taliban
fighters," Fisk notes. "Meanwhile, opium production and exports are higher now
than at any time before. The United Nations said that in 2001, under Taliban
rule, drug production fell by 45 per cent. The reverse trend happened since the
invasion. The situation is not as bad as Iraq, but it is still bad," he
laments. "I often wonder why we [the West] are there in Afghanistan," he adds.
As for Iran, Fisk is quick to note that Siemens, the giant German
multinational, launched Iran's nuclear programme. It was the West that
encouraged the Shah of Iran to go nuclear: "The Shah started the nuclear
ambitions of Iran. It was also the Shah who sought nuclear power. It was the
West that helped Iran build the Bushehr nuclear facility. The Shah once said
that he would like to have a [nuclear] bomb because the Soviets and the
Americans had it. Then he was warmly received in the White House, because he
was our policeman in the Gulf," Fisk asserts.
Ironically, it was the Islamist Iranian Revolutionary Guard that was against
Iran going nuclear: "When the Islamic Revolution took place in Iran,
revolutionaries decided to close the nuclear facility because they said 'it's a
work of the devil'." It was only after the Iran-Iraq war that the Iranian
regime became interested once again in reviving its nuclear programme. As far
as Fisk is concerned, Iran is a critically important Middle Eastern nation, but
is laden with the time-honoured bureaucracy, red tape and antiquated or
parochial perspectives that have long pulled the region backwards.
Is America the region's engine of progress? Not for Robert Fisk. Empires and
superpowers follow their own agenda: "In Firdous Square, Baghdad, US marines
pulled down the gaunt and massive statue of Saddam by roping it to an armoured
personal carrier. It toppled menacingly forward from its plinth to hang
lengthways above the ground, right arm still raised in fraternal greetings to
the Iraqi people. It was a symbolic moment in more ways than one. I stood
behind the first man to seize a hatchet and smash at the imposing grey marble
plinth, but within seconds, the marble had fallen away to reveal a foundation
of cheap bricks and badly cracked cement. That's what the Americans always
guessed Saddam's regime was made of, although they did their best, in the late
70s and early 80s to arm him and service his economy and offer him political
support -- to turn him into the very dictator he became," Fisk notes.
Currently, the American empire faces a crisis -- its military power is failing
and it has won over few allies. Fisk sees in this a repeat cycle of history.
"It goes something like this: Iraqis don't deserve us; our sacrifices are in
vain." He extrapolates: "There is a community of hate on the Internet,"
emanating from the American neoconservative right. Fisk cites the example of a
tongue-in-cheek article published in The Los Angeles Times entitled "Those
ingrate Iraqis". "We liberated that country from a tyrant. I think the Iraqi
people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude ... We've endured great
sacrifice to help them," the article quotes US President George W Bush as
saying.
Palestine is a different kettle of fish altogether. "The Islamic Movement Hamas
didn't succeed because we (Western governments) didn't want them to succeed. We
didn't want to talk to them. And they were under sanctions because the Western
governments believe that those pesky Palestinians elected the wrong people.
Western governments do not want democracy in the Middle East. We are quite
happy to have dictators if they are obedient to us. We like them when they
invade Iran, but not when they invade Kuwait. We liked Egypt until it
nationalised the Suez Canal. Then we bombed Port Said, Ismailia and Suez.
Because we have ideological as well as oil interests, we try constantly to
refashion the façade that allows us to support various regimes."
Fisk continues: "Western governments want peoples [of the region] to elect
political forces these governments like. The Palestinians didn't vote for an
Islamic republic, rather they were sick of corruption. The way [Western
governments] dealt with Arafat's regime made it bound to be corrupt. If the
Palestinians had elected people Western governments had wanted they would have
praised this democracy. Western governments and the European Union didn't want
to give money to Hamas. They were used to giving it to a Palestinian Authority
that was squandering it." Fisk concludes: "From the very beginning I said Oslo
would be a tragedy."
What about the new government of national unity bringing Fatah and Hamas
together? "Should Hamas recognise the State of Israel? If Israel really wants
peace, why don't they sit with Hamas and have a serious, mature discussion to
agree on a formula that would work? The question is: Do we want peace or not?
Why don't we refer back to UN Security Council Resolution 242 stating that
Israel should withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967?"
Are there other hidden hands in the region's politics? The New Yorker 's
Seymour Hersh devotes much time and energy to the role of the Saudis. "By
adopting the rigidity of Wahabism the royal family [in Saudi Arabia] found
itself in an extraordinary position where they were abiding by the codes of an
institution that believes that you should fight corruption, but never overthrow
your rulers. So the whole system of the Saudi government walks this tightrope,"
Fisk muses.
Meanwhile, "Saudi money is going to the Taliban, to our friend General Pervez
Musharraf, and it went to Bin Laden." Fisk concludes, tongue-in-cheek: "And
money buys respect
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