Looks like I was chasing ghosts (or my own tail) with this one.  Seems
the table of contents file was corrupt.  When I manually created a table
of contents for my HDV source file, the render worked properly.

Ugh.  What a lovely way to spend three evenings.

thanks for the help.
scott

On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 14:18 +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> Jonathan,
> Thank you for taking the time to write out a detailed response.  My responses 
> are below.
> scott
> 
> >>I'll have to take your word for it; the waveforms as presented are rather
> >>difficult to use to verify sync.  
> The drummer's snare hit should be clear enough to see.
> 
> >>Hmm, I assume you mean 48 kHz.
> Sorry..too long working with CDs (44.1kHz)
> 
> >>One question before we start.  Was your multitrack and camera synced to the
> >>same clock during the recording session (be it word clock, smtpe etc)?  
> No.
> 
> >>the end.  The only way to resolve this with unlocked sources is to 
> >>resample the audio from the multitrack in such a way that you correct for
> >>the subtle clock differences of the gear used.
> Wouldn't this difference show up in Cinelerra?
> 
> >>  http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~jwoithe/audiosync-0.4.tgz
> I will try your program out..definetly.  Thank you for the detailed 
> explanation!
> 
> >>As far as the software you need to work out the sample number of these
> >>events I use audacity.  
> That is a good idea..I will load up both audio files and see about syncing 
> them there.
> 
> >>This seems rather strange.  If there's a sync problem you should hear it in
> >>cinelerra unless for some odd reason the tracks aren't always being mixed. 
> >>I must admit that I do *all* my audio mixing in ardour (I export the camera
> >>audio to WAV, import that to ardour and then sync off that), so have no
> >>experience doing multitrack audio mixes in cinelerra.
> Strange indeed..I would think we should hear it in Cin as well.
> 
> >>>> sync.mov: Xine shows sync problems, mplayer no problems
> >>>> sync.mpg: Xine shows no sync problems, mplayer shows problems
> 
> >>That sounds bizarre.  While you can get sync problems in certain situations
> >>with different AV container formats this would cause the entire audio track
> >>to drift out of sync.  As I understand it from your opening statements,
> >>"sync problem" here refers to an audible echo indicating one source track
> >>being out of sync with the other.
> I should clarify that when I say sync, I mean the synchronization between the 
> audio from the multitrack recording to the video.  In my case, the sync looks 
> good in Cinelerra, but not in the rendered output.
> 
> I will let you know how I fare after work tonight.
> scott
> 
> email message attachment
> On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 14:18 +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > email message attachment, "Forwarded message - [CinCVS] Re: audio
> > sync problem on rendered output, but not when viewing in compositor"
> > On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 14:18 +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> > > > I'm having a problem with the audio sync on a rendered video.  This is a
> > > > video of a rock band playing.  I have used the original audio from the
> > > > cam (720P HDV, MPEGTS, 48.1khz audio) to sync up a multi-track recording
> > > > of the same session (WAV, 48.1khz audio).  When reviewing the audio
> > > > waveform in Cinelerra, the new and old audio tracks align perfectly:
> > > > http://content.serveftp.net/video/sync_audioalignment.png
> > > 
> > > I'll have to take your word for it; the waveforms as presented are rather
> > > difficult to use to verify sync.  The other thing to note that at least at
> > > the scale in the above screen grab, two tracks can *look* in sync but
> > > be far enough out to make the sync mismatch audible.
> > > 
> > > Hmm, I assume you mean 48 kHz.
> > > 
> > > One question before we start.  Was your multitrack and camera synced to 
> > > the
> > > same clock during the recording session (be it word clock, smtpe etc)?  If
> > > not, the reality is that the sampling of your multitrack and that of
> > > the camera audio will differ slightly.  The difference might not be large,
> > > but even over 4 minutes I would expect a detectable sync problem towards
> > > the end.  The only way to resolve this with unlocked sources is to 
> > > resample the audio from the multitrack in such a way that you correct for
> > > the subtle clock differences of the gear used.
> > > 
> > > I routinely do this kind of thing and wrote a program to do this 
> > > resampling.
> > > You can check it out at
> > > 
> > >   http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~jwoithe/audiosync-0.4.tgz
> > > 
> > > It's quick and dirty but does the job for me.  In the context of your
> > > job you would pick to points in the recordings which are easily 
> > > identifiable
> > > in both waveforms - preferably at the start and end of the audio.  You 
> > > then
> > > work out the exact sample number that this event corresponds to.  While 
> > > this
> > > can be easy for direct audio (from the multitrack in your case) room 
> > > reverb
> > > can make picking events difficult in the camera audio (unless you piped
> > > the direct sound into the camera as well).  Usually I pick things like the
> > > snare hits, for obvious reasons.  These sample numbers are then used by
> > > audiosync to resample the multitrack recordings so those events line up
> > > exactly.  So long as you've chosen accurate samples you will end up with
> > > very good sync over the long term (for example, using this method I
> > > often achieve synchronisation to within 10 samples over a period of 90
> > > minutes).
> > > 
> > > As far as the software you need to work out the sample number of these
> > > events I use audacity.  I set it to work directly with the audio files 
> > > since
> > > it loads the files much quicker (although with only 4 minutes of audio
> > > you are unlikely to have problems either way).  You can set the location
> > > display to be in samples using an item about half-way down the "View" 
> > > menu.
> > > The zoom buttons are then your friend.
> > > 
> > > > Also, when playing back the video in the compositor, I hear no evidence
> > > > of a sync problem.  I can turn on both cam and externally recorded
> > > > stereo tracks and listen the whole way through the four minute recording
> > > > without any reverb or noticeable sync issues.  However, after rendering
> > > > the files to a final format, I get inconsistent results in xine and
> > > > mplayer.
> > > 
> > > This seems rather strange.  If there's a sync problem you should hear it 
> > > in
> > > cinelerra unless for some odd reason the tracks aren't always being 
> > > mixed. 
> > > I must admit that I do *all* my audio mixing in ardour (I export the 
> > > camera
> > > audio to WAV, import that to ardour and then sync off that), so have no
> > > experience doing multitrack audio mixes in cinelerra.
> > > 
> > > > sync.mov: Xine shows sync problems, mplayer no problems
> > > > sync.mpg: Xine shows no sync problems, mplayer shows problems
> > > 
> > > That sounds bizarre.  While you can get sync problems in certain 
> > > situations
> > > with different AV container formats this would cause the entire audio 
> > > track
> > > to drift out of sync.  As I understand it from your opening statements,
> > > "sync problem" here refers to an audible echo indicating one source track
> > > being out of sync with the other.
> > > 
> > > Regards
> > >   jonathan
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cinelerra mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra


_______________________________________________
Cinelerra mailing list
[email protected]
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Reply via email to