Yes.
At 12:24 AM 1/5/01 -0800, Sam Adams wrote:
>What the heck is a ccXX? CCNA, CCDA, CCDP, CCNP, CCIE?
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
>Sam LI
>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:54 AM
>To: Donald B Johnson Jr; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: ccie lab
>
>
>Folks
>I agree that no one is willing want to put ccie 102400 on their name card.
>Let me tell you how do the management level look at ccie, at the very
>begining when
>cisco launch ccie, every one is very very crazy about ccie, engineers and
>vendor,
>as far as engineer concern, they can ask more, for sure. The companywise,
>the more ccie
>we get, the more discount we get. What happen nowaday, if you are ccie,
>that's great,
>if you are not, it is fine with us. We need someone who is able to perform
>and work,
>not BS. A lot of my friends on passing thier ccie, they don;t want to work
>as engineer any more,
>or even don;t want to work in the cisco enviroment, and they want more, $
>and position.
>"manager" is the entry level for them. Right before, i leave
>my previous company, I have interview a lot of ccXXs. Most of them don't
>desire the CCxx title.
>This is not hard to understand this, hunderds and thousands of "21 days
>became ccxx" books
>study materials out there, as long as you can affort few weeks off and a
>couple of thouand $ on
>buying these books, you can be one of them.
>It is a chellenge if you became one of the CCxx.
>Sam
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Donald B Johnson Jr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:28 AM
>Subject: ccie lab
>
>
> > I don't see a problem with the lab being so booked.
> > So many people taking the exam and the number of ccie's being so low. Is a
> > good thing. If someone qualifies and feels they are ready let them go. You
> > should schedule your lab at the next available time and go take it. If you
> > fail then tell me how long would you want to wait. Myself I will schedule
> > the next available time and take it again until I pass. Most great battles
> > have been won by attrition, since Moses to CCIE.
> > Duck
> >
> >
> >
> > I certainly agree with all the points Chuck made. One thing that Cisco
>could
> > do is
> > change the requirements to take the lab besides just passing the written
> > exam. I am not
> > saying by any account that the written is easy, but I know people that
>have
> > passed it by
> > pure luck and really don't know a darn thing. I know a person right now
>that
> > has passed
> > the written by getting the passing score on the dime, and he is taking the
> > lab soon. I
> > wish good luck to him, however he is walking in blindly with out EVER
> > actually
> > configured a router. He has no internetworking design or troubleshooting
> > experience in
> > the real world, however he is going to go and take the lab exam just to
>"see
> > what it is
> > like"....
> >
> > I don't think Chuck's ideas are cruel and unusual. I think they really
>need
> > to make this
> > tougher then it already is. Who wants to put "CCIE #102,000" after their
> > name? If they
> > just open more racks it may get to that point. I believe the written exam
> > should be
> > scratched with a new format with a higher passing score. Truly the money
> > issue sometimes
> > makes little difference. If someone has 30,000 grand to spend on
>equipment,
> > classes,
> > books etc., a few more grand can't hurt. And if their company is paying
>then
> > who cares
> > right? I know a company that has spent countless dollars actually flying
>a
> > guy to
> > Canada, putting him up in a hotel...and paying for his lab....they did
>this
> > 5 times
> > before he passed his lab. Those slots could have been used for someone
>that
> > actually
> > knew what they were doing and had a chance to pass. It would be nice if
> > they had a 4
> > hour lab prequal after taking the written. Something that would not
>require
> > a proctor to
> > pass. You would be given many different scenarios at Sylvan and require to
> > configure
> > them with a virtual IOS. The configs would be sent to an evaluator at
>Cisco
> > and then you
> > would be contacted a week later concerning scheduling your real lab date.
> > This could
> > weed out some of the flunkies.
> >
> > If Cisco ruins the value of this exam, they are not going to have any
>future
> > revenue
> > from it.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> > Chuck Larrieu wrote:
> >
> > > >> I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they
> > were
> > > going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)<<
> > >
> > > some cruel and unusual thoughts come to mind.
> > >
> > > 1) Set some arbitrary standard such that people who fail day one by more
> > > than so many points have a 90 day wait for retest, rather than 30 days.
>Or
> > > you have to at least made it into day 2 to be able to retest within 30
> > days.
> > > Some such thing
> > >
> > > 2) Limit the number of times one may attempt the lab in any 12 month
> > period.
> > >
> > > 3) Increase the price charged for each lab attempt. E.g. 1K for first
> > > attempt, 2K for 2nd, 5K for third
> > >
> > > I say this half jokingly, but half seriously. I talk to a lot of people
> > who
> > > take the lab, both those who have passed and those who have not.
> > > The old rule of economics holds true - people act according to their
> > > perceived best interest. If someone else is footing the bill, and there
>is
> > > no disincentive for failure, then people will act accordingly. They will
> > > book themselves and make attempts even when they know they have no hope
>of
> > > passing. They will schedule attempt after attempt because there is no
> > reason
> > > not to, especially if someone else pays, and especially if there is no
> > > penalty for failure.
> > >
> > > To be frank, I don't see any incentive for Cisco to do anything to
>change
> > > things on the demand side. They might add more racks, or more lab
> > locations.
> > > But do the numbers some time. Cisco is booking something like 25 - 30
> > people
> > > a week in San Jose alone. That's 25-30 K per week in revenue, or at
>least
> > > 1.3 million a year. So they pay a couple of lab proctors 150K each. The
> > rest
> > > is pure profit. ( yes, I know from an accounting standpoint there are
> > > several other cost factors ) So the incentive from Cisco's standpoint is
> > do
> > > figure out ways to add revenue, rather than limit testing attempts.
> > >
> > > I look for Cisco to announce a bit more capacity, either in terms of
> > adding
> > > another location or adding more racks at existing locations. Or both.
> > There
> > > is a ton of money to be made in the certification game, and as the
>entity
> > > that controls the rules and the market, Cisco certainly enjoys the
>lion's
> > > share of that revenue.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
>Of
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 9:04 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Backlog for CCIE Lab (RTP at least)
> > >
> > > I am a little behind on my mail, so please forgive me if this has been
> > > answered.
> > >
> > > I called to schedule my lab on Dec 21. The next date available was June
> > > 11-12 at RTP. SIX MONTH BACKLOG...WOW!!!
> > >
> > > I did not ask about other test centers, but would imagine similar
> > bookings.
> > > I was told Cisco was trying to reduce the problem, but not how they were
> > > going to achieve their goal. (I wish them luck)
> > >
> > > Jon Burns
> > > CCNP, CCDP, Lab Candidate
> > > Now, I just need to get a job! ;-)
> > >
> > > _________________________________
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