Tell us Louie what did you use.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley J. Wilson"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> Well, again, Sir Edmund, just because the newcomers can be better-informed
> before their attempts doesn't mean that the challenge needs to be altered
or
> is less of a challenge for the individual.
>
> Again, I'm not against making certs tougher to achieve. But it sounds
like
> there's a touch of bitterness that these study guides weren't around way
> back when...well, that's just the way life is. Making the CCIE "tougher"
> and still calling it the "CCIE" is like asking runners to run a 400m race,
> but then making them run 500m without telling them. ;-) Besides, the
> argument about the study materials is subjective. Was CCO around when you
> took the CCIE? Were other engineers around who were studying for it?
Were
> used routers around for you to purchase, and perhaps set up for others to
> telnet into? I'm sure there were - if you (and/or others) didn't make use
> of them, then that's water under the source-route bridge.
>
> If you want someone to be angry at, be angry at the people who took the
> CCIE, passed or not, and then went out and wrote books on how to study for
> the CCIE. But I personally don't think these people are doing a
disservice
> to the CCIE, nor are they devaluing it - and with a consistent 80% failure
> rate, they're certainly not making it "less challenging." The study
guides,
> etc. make it more of a group effort, and there's nothing wrong with that -
> not against the rules, not against the NDA, and our society wins because
> we're able to learn from (and teach to) one another, thereby filling the
> desperate need we have today for knowledgeable network engineers. Don't
> punish those of us who have not yet earned our CCIE status for using the
> resources which are available to us - or for having the foresight to
create
> and share new resources.
>
> It really sounds like your argument is that it should be more of a
> "dog-eat-dog" world than a world where we're allowed to cooperate and
share
> knowledge.
>
> Am I wrong? If so, why?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Louie Belt
> To: Bradley J. Wilson
> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:56 PM
> Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
>
> I willing to have the tougher recerts and the tougher challenge with my
2nd
> CCIE cert. The bar has been lowered due to the deluge of study materials
> that are now present to assist you. I'm for putting the bar back to where
> it was taking into consideration the additional study aids available.
>
> Louie
>
> and also wrote...
>
> When the CCIE cert first came about there were not 100+ books avilable to
> help you pass it. There were not a multitude of online labs, lab study
> guides, study groups, ... Since all of those items are now available, I
> feel the bar has been lowered. I'm for putting it back where it was.
>
> Additionally I'm studying for my second CCIE cert, I sincerely hope that
it
> is much tougher than my first. I want to maintain the value of the cert.
>
> Louie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Bradley J. Wilson
> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
>
> If I weren't up to the challenge, I wouldn't be on this newsgroup. Are
you
> up to the challenge of leaving the bar at the same height that it was when
> *you* passed the test? I personally think the test is difficult enough as
> it is. Am I a wimp because of that? Do we need to dump some dirt on the
> top of Everest now that it's been conquered by someone else ahead of me?
>
> If Cisco wants to make the test "tougher," they're well within their
rights
> to do so. I just hope they don't call it the "CCIE" - call it something
> different, and reset the numbers to zero (or 1025, whichever).
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Louie Belt
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:33 AM
> Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
>
> Any CCIE or CCIE candidate worth his salt would want the lab to be
tougher.
> A number of study aids are now available that were not in the past. This
> has somewhat lessened the difficulty of the process (as witnessed by the
> backlog of people taking the lab after breezing through the written).
> Making it tougher is just a method of counterbalancing all of the
increased
> study aids and maintaining the value of the CCIE cert.
>
> If you truly want to obtain your CCIE then you should want it to be as
> difficult as possible, otherwise where is the value in the cert? If you
are
> not up to the challenge, then don't make the attempt.
>
> As for who should evaluate the CCIE program - most (not all)employers
> couldn't begin to answer the questions about what is needed from a CCIE.
> The biggest employer of CCIE's is Cisco (by far) so they should already
have
> an idea of what is needed. Cisco has been respectful enough of the CCIE
> population to also ask for their input and most have given it willingly.
>
> My main interested is in preserving the value of the CCIE cert. I am
> currently studying for my 2nd CCIE cert and still hope they make it
tougher
> (before I complete it). I also hope they make the recertification tests
> tougher as well.
>
> I'm up to the challenge - are you?
>
>
> Louie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Bradley J. Wilson
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:11 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
>
> Forgive my cynicism, but any CCIE *would* want the lab to be tougher -
they
> would know that any CCIEs that came along after they received their number
> increase the supply, thus lowering the cost of the good. ;-)
>
> I think Cisco ought to be asking companies who *hire* CCIEs what skills
> *they* would like to see in those who carry the CCIE certification - not
the
> number-carrying CCIEs themselves.
>
> BJ
>
> P.S. And while I'm feeling cynical...can we please move the "NT vs. UNIX"
> nonsense to private emails or perhaps a different mail list? Theeeeenks.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Belt, Louie
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 2:15 PM
> Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
>
> I filled out my survey and told them I wanted it to stay a two day lab -
> and if anything - make it tougher. The explosion of materials available
to
> help people get though the written and prepare for the lab has taken some
of
> the challenge out of the process in my opinion. I would prefer they keep
it
> a 2 day lab, make it mean as h*** and keep the prestige in the cert. I
also
> told them I did not want them to stop issuing the medal for those who
> succeed.
>
> Louie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CCIE Wanna BE
> To: Belt, Louie; '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
> Sent: 6/1/01 8:23 AM
> Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
> So what is everyone's take?
> --- "Belt, Louie" wrote:
> > That is simply one possible solution. They have
> > sent a survey out to all of
> > the CCIE's to get their feedback and suggestions.
> >
> > Louie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CCIE Wanna BE
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 6/1/01 5:35 AM
> > Subject: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> >
> > A Cisco manager/CCIE told me that Cisco was planing
> > on
> > moving from the two day CCIE lab, to a one day
> > (because of the back log). But the 1 day isn't
> > going
> > to be easier, it's going to be harder....
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
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