This thread is veering too far off course so I'll end my ramblings here... I'm just in general objection to the US prison system in its current (entire?) incarnation. I don't think the prison system ultimately benefits society. I'm not saying we bend over backwards to comfort criminals -- but, on a practical note, our tax dollars are pumped into this institution, but crime trends (in the states anyway) aren't going down, nor are (most) ex-con's tendency to commit crimes once back on the outside. The current "solution" isn't working. I was just little appaled by the general apathy on this list. People are people, and yes there are some terrible ones, but I don't think we grow as a culture nor a species by continuing alienate segments of our population even further. - Sean
-----Original Message----- From: MADMAN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:54 PM To: Sean Knox c: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MAJOR OT: Free CCNPtraining for convicts [7:34039] And character is not taught. I thought prisons were for punishment anyway. Your not sent there to prepare for a new life though they sure seem to have ample resources if they so choose the use them. By saying we deny them a better life implies that we can grant them one? Dave Sean Knox wrote: Of course actions have consequences. In our society, we have deemed the more severe criminal actions require prison/jail time, among other things. Further punishing ex-cons by denying them a better life when they get out isn't right-- isn't that why we sent them to prison in the first place? Was that not their punishment? Furthermore, character has absolutely NOTHING to do with certifications in general, IT, and sadly, business in general. I know a good deal people employed in this industry that have little character and skill (IMO). Character is a very relative and subjection thing. - Sean -----Original Message----- From: Puckette, Larry (TIFPC) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:53 AM To: 'Sean Knox'; Puckette, Larry (TIFPC); [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: MAJOR OT: Free CCNPtraining for convicts [7:34039] And you seem to subscribe that character is not a relevant issue and that actions should not have consequences. Larry Puckette Network Analyst CCNA,MCP,LANCP Temple Inland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 512/434-1838 -----Original Message----- From: Sean Knox [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 12:15 PM To: 'Puckette, Larry (TIFPC)'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: MAJOR OT: Free CCNPtraining for convicts [7:34039] Oh I see, you subscribe to the school that thinks denying ex-convicts the basic skill sets to survive and perhaps even thrive in society will somehow benefit all of us. Yes, let's keep the downtrodden even further below the higher classes! Only the already fortunate may benefit from white collar jobs! Gee I wonder what happens when convicts finish their jail tail and re-enter society without any means to support themselves... more crime, ya think? But I guess you think locking people up in cages is tax money well spent, right? Some of the elitism on this list is revolting. - Sean -----Original Message----- From: Puckette, Larry (TIFPC) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 6:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: MAJOR OT: Free CCNPtraining for convicts [7:34039] Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anybody mention the character reputation degradation that is sure to follow when these convicts populate our ranks after their release. Looks like just another feel good image enhancement project without considering long term effects to me. Cisco should keep that in mind and realize that there are more people with proven character strengths involved in the Cisco ranks now than the field will ever need and not throw a bunch of rotten apples in to the mix. Just my 2 cents worth, hope it's just a urban legend.... Larry Puckette Network Analyst CCNA,MCP,LANCP Temple Inland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 512/434-1838 -----Original Message----- From: c1sc0k1d [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MAJOR OT: Free CCNPtraining for convicts [7:34039] Cool... well I feel a little better now about my sentencing next week. Do you know if I'll have newsgroup access? ""steve skinner"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... > guys, > > my boss has just told me that cisco are trailing a few prisons where they > are offering free CCNP training to convicts.... > > man does that just bite the buscuit..... > > i worked long and hard to pay for my exams.....get some work experience > ....and at my expence (bieng a tax payer)i am funding a convict to learn > about cisco..... > > i know about re-abilitation.....but it is just a bit sick that i as an > individual,could > > a) been robbed by this man ... my house is trashed and my insurence goes up > (i pay ) > b) funding him in prison to learn Cisco (i pay) > c) comes out of prison and de-vaules a cert becuse he has no experience (i > pay) > > > does cisco want to have a "useless" cert system....(except ofcourse the > CCIE)....because the more people who BLANTENTLY DONT have any experience > witht these certs ...the less they mean... > > > i`m sorry to rant....but sometimes i wish company`s would consider there > future.. > > FACT (from Cisco) there will always be more jobs for NA/NP than IE`s > > 1)i get exams to be employable... > 2)in order to get these exams i push the company`s kit .. > > i have recently installed some 4000`s over another companies kit,even > thought the other kit is more than capable of doing the job..because i get a > side benefit of learning about the equipment and increasing my CV value > .... > > 3)if i am working at a company and i dont want a cisco cert because it is > worthless..why would i push that companies products.. > > i would simply push another company`s products to get my certs in the there > equipment ,to keep my employability.... > > 4) cisco dont sell as much equipment .... > 5) certs become even more worthless.. > 6) cisco sells even less equipment ....as no-one is trained anymore > 7) cisco becomes Novell....(my appologies to all novell staff)... > > a little for-thought is all that required... > > as my boss says... > > " one of my main reson for buying kit is the amount of tech staff availible > to install/fix the kit...if there`s no staff there no kit" > > in a job market that is already depressed that last thing that is needed is > a flood of Certified but unexperienced people on the market.. > > the it industry is like no other ,in that fact that we have to CONSTANTLY > update our skills ...that takes time,money and personal > sacrfise....something i dont think cisco is at all concernd with... > > ahh welll..... > > no chance of a "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" list starting any time soon...?? > > Sorry for the downer.... > > steve > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com &i=34117&t=34039 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- David Madland CCIE# 2016 Sr. Network Engineer Qwest Communications Inc. 612-664-3367 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=34156&t=34039 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
