[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Frank,
>
> Thanks for making this MS available. Ive just been looking through
it and trying some of the pieces on a Russian guitar in G tuning (I just
pretended the fifth string didnt exist and it reproduces the tuning
exactly).
I've done the same with a waldzither and yes, the pieces are really
cute. :-)
> The MS is quite faded in places and its difficult to make out some
of the notes.
Some may have been lost in scanning I'm afraid. The paper copies I have
are faded but I think all is readable - although only barely so at
times. Hopefully I can manage to find time to transcribe the entire
manuscript (done the four first so far).
> The first piece, an Allemande, is straightforward enough. A simple
little piece and it sounds pleasant enough on the Russian guitar
and
would sound equally pleasant on a Norwegian sister.
Does that mean the verdict is still open on the question whether it was
intended for a plucked or a bowed instrument? I posted a few
transcriptions here earlier and the comments I gave left me with the
impression that it was almost certainly for the viol.
>
> But one would expect a GBDGBD tuning rather than a DGDGBD tuning for
a cittern type instrument. But again, later German citterns, from about
1800 had a similar tuning for the top five strings (or courses): CGCEG,
i.e. omitting the lower major third. Maybe this tuning in the Bang MS is
a Norwegian variant.
That may well be the case.
> I dont know what cultural interchange there was between Swedes and
Norwegians in the latter half of the 18th century.
There's always been a rich cultural exchange between Sweden and eastern
Norway. But the Bang manuscript seems to originate in the Bergen region,
about as far from Sweden and Swedish influence that you can possibly come.
> The Swedes sometimes called their version of the guittar, the luta.
(I think this spelling is right!) If Norwegians did too, then this
really could be the Peter Bang lute MS!.
Well yes, but keep in mind that there seems to be no historical support
for the "lute" designation. Apparently it was added by some fairly late
20th century musicologist who never had a good look at the book but
simply assumed that since it was in tablature it had to be for the lute.
> But guittar/cistre music in Britain, France, Sweden and elsewhere is
not in tablature (
maybe it was in tab in Germany?) so that might
suggest the music is not for a sister.
True, but I don't think viol music was usually notated in tablature this
late either and I think we can safely ignore the lute (the true lute
that is, not a renamed cittern).
> (I havent sorted out the final tuning.)
Me neither. To be honest I haven't gotten around to really look at it
yet (this is a draft, remember). Bang gives each tuning in two different
ways: a table of the unison notes on adjacent courses and a table of the
octaves across the strings. When it comes to the third tunings the two
tables contradict each other.
> I agree that 1679 seems very unlikely. The music, as you suggest, is
more like a century later.
I didn't intend to suggest that. The 1769 dating on my title page is
actually a typo!
Moe offers no evidence to support his 1679 dating though, and it's
important to keep in mind that he wrote his essay attempting to sell the
book. He may well have exaggerated its age a little bit (or at least be
less keen than he should have been to double-check his information. ;-)
To me the style of handwriting and the spelling looks more late 18th
than 17th century. I'd really like to get an expert's view on that -
preferably one who could also dechipher the text snippets I'm unable to
read.
The style of the arrangements also look suspiciously similar to what we
find in the Scottish guittar books.
However, I was told here that there were a couple of concordances with
Playford's lyra viol publications. If that's true, it may well have been
1th C. (and it might also settle the instrumentation question).
> The first piece, the Allemande, now a very simple little country
dance, was very popular in the guittar and cistre repertoire of 18th
century Britain and France.
You mean that particular allemande or allemandes in general?
>
> I can see a few mistakes in the tablature. The piece on page 12 (your
numbering) in the second bar, the last note should be a line lower. And
there is a very strange chord on the second half of bar 8 of the same
piece
a mistake surely.
I have to look at those. Thanks.
> Is this music for the lyra viol?
I thought so and other, more learned, scholars agreed. Then I began
wondering whether it may have been for a cittern instead, but our
previous discussion here on the topic convinced me it was for the lyra viol.
After your comments I'm not so sure anymore.
> I know absolutely nothing about this instrument. Was it popular in
the second half of the 18th century?
In Norway you mean? I know of no other reference to the lyra viol in
this country from the 18th or any other century. Can't say I've looked
into the topic yet though.
When it comes to Europe as a whole it's a bit late, but not impossibly so.
> No doubt this music could as well be bowed as well as plucked and
there are some strange signs in the music which might settle the matter.
Sometimes open strings have a dot under them.
It was those dots that got me to think of the cittern in the first
place. They're quite common as (right hand) fingering indications for
plucked instruments from the 16th century and right up to today. Never
seen them used for bwed instruments, but again, I'm not an expert. My
personal experience as a violist is limited to some basic Susato abuse
in my youth.
Another detail that puzzled me, are the frequent use of unison notes on
two courses (one open, one fretted) combined with a higher note on yet
another course. Quite elementary on a plucked instrument but doesn't
seem to be worth the bother when played with a bow.
> Sometimes theres a slur with two vertical lines cutting through it.
The two vertical lines appear to be an ornament sign of some kind. They
don't always coincide with a slur.
> Sometimes theres a wavy horizontal line below a note.
Hmmmm...
I thought these were ornaments too, but they may well indicate that the
note is supposed to ring on. If that's the case, the music is most
certainly intended for a plucked instrument. Have a look at piece no 3
("Nuvel an vær frisk til mod") and tell me what you think.
There are also some digonal lines between notes in a chord there. Not
absolutely sure what they mean.
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