Hi Peter; I'm Roger, the OP from the vihuela list. Thanks for the info and for the pointers to a few other early documented examples. I hope someone will make a point of getting all these already known pictures collected in one place and posted somewhere on the web -- so we can all get up to speed and on the same page as quickly and effortlessly as possible.
> The dividing line between cetra (della Robbia) and cittern (Plebanus) is still woolly the dai Libri Verona instrument is the best intermediate step and link between the two, correct? Is the dai Libri instrument considered by you folks to be a true cittern, or rather as the last best link prior to true Renaissance citterns? Also, has anyone determined if the Libri-Verona is diatonic or chromatically fretted? Even the best picture I have is fuzzy, but diatonic looks to be a real possibility. > an earlier painting by Libri on a ms leaf in the V&A museum, c.1495 showing a large cetra/cetera similar to the cantoria reliefs I'd like to see both of these, somehow while we're at it, is there a name for those wide tongue-depressor like or clamp frets seen on mid 15th century instruments? Has anyone got a good handle on what the hell those were? Thanks Roger ==================================== Peter Forrester Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:24:55 -0800 Dear Rob and Doc, Sorry, but both the Luca della Robbia cantoria reliefs and the Benedetto Antelami carving have been in the literature for a long time - since 1967: Emanuel Winternitz, "Musical Instruments and their Symbolism in Western Art". He also includes three cetra by Agostino di Duccio in the Tempio Malatestiano, Rimini, one of which will become familiar to recipients of my this year's Xmas card, and other depictions on the border-line. The Verona painting by Girolamo dai Libri is particularly interesting being close in date to the Plebanus cittern in Paris, but also because of an earlier painting by the same artist on a ms leaf in the V&A museum, c.1495 showing a large cetra/cetera similar to the cantoria reliefs. There used to be a postcard available of the detail, but this had been discontinued when I enquired earlier this year. A reproduction can be seen in plate 86, V&A Publication: Rowan Watson, "Illuminated Manuscripts and their Makers". A cast of the reliefs and one of the Agostino do.is also in the V&A cast-room. The dividing line between cetra (della Robbia) and cittern (Plebanus) is still woolly and open to further discussion despite the gittern/citole/cetra conference in Basel this year. There was much discussion concerning cetra frets in FoMRHI in the late 70s, but I still know of no completely convincing description. Peter To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
