The geno/pheno debate reminds me of the old question: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
The truth is that you have to use both. Sometimes when you think that you are breeding phenotype, you're actually breeding genotype and vice versa. For example, when you breed a Tri because you know that it can produce Blenheims, you're breeding genotype. When you breed a dog because he has a great head, but you don't know if he'll throw that great head, you're breeding phenotype. All the best, Susan Cochran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peggy Mickelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:39 PM Subject: [CKCS-L] pheno/geno/beano > Well, you can call it what you will...but phenotype is pretty universally regarded as what you see, so if you are breeding for a certain look, you are breeding for phenotype. Certainly it is the genes that give the phenotype...but if it were so easy to breed by genotype, then there would be many more Cavalier kennels with a particular look...and there are not. > Yes, a dog who can stamp its progeny has the genes to do it, and if the dog is lucky, his phenotype reflects the good genes that he can pass on...others, like the dog Leann described, look one way and pass on different genes. Obviously he has the genes for the way he looks, too, otherwise he couldn't look that way. Isn't it interesting that he can't pass it on with any consistency? Sounds like a dog who couldn't be depended on to pass on anything in particular. This isn't a > slam, but a statement. He's big, but doesn't sire big...but can he be depended on to sire small? And what else does he pass on with consistency...anything? > The reasons Basil was used so much were because first of all he was extremely well marketed.....secondly because he sired a very large percentage of puppies with a particular look--and in very many cases, a particular structure. And his stud fee wasn't out of line, either... > I don't know about James...I know he's been used a lot, but I haven't paid sufficient attention to his puppies to know if he consistently produces anything in particular. > We aren't breeding peas here, we're breeding dogs...and Mendelian principles do not always work out, as any experienced breeder of anything other than plants will freely admit. If there were any dogs around in the US now that could be depended on to consistently sire wonderful stuff regardless of what the bitches' pedigrees were, that'd be a dog to note...but who has a dog like that now? And how's he bred, and what is he producing that is so consistent? > If you are breeding for a certain look or appearance, you are breeding for phenotype....and of course it is the dog's genes that give it...but would you breed to the dog if he didn't exhibit the trait in the first place? No...because if you can't see it, you don't know it's there.....unless someone else has done a lot of breedings and produced it. So basically you are breeding for phenotype unless you're an Einstein.......and even Einstein said " > As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and > as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." > Peggy. > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author.
