Thank you for your thoughts on this!
On 2006-11-28, Nikodemus Siivola
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Larry Clapp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> *** I have this cool idea for a new Lisp dialect / Lisp syntax that
>> doesn't involve so many parentheses! It uses indentation to show
>> structure!
>>
>> Since the advent of Python, this comes up on c.l.l. with some
>> regularity. We've had "sweet-expressions" and "indented Lisp" and
>> probably others.
>>
>> Realize a few things:
>>
>> @ You should use an editor that makes writing Lisp easier, like
>> Emacs or Vim. Both of these can indent based on parenthesis
>> nesting, highlight matching parentheses, cut and paste entire blocks
>> of code based on the parentheses, and so on. If your editor can't
>> do all that, get a new editor.
>>
>> @ Lispers already read code based on indentation, but their editors
>> indent and re-indent code automatically. \i{Removing} the
>> parentheses makes that \i{harder}.
>>
>> @ After you've written and read enough Lisp, you stop seeing the
>> parentheses. (Reports, from actual newbies who've experienced it,
>> vary from a few days to a few weeks.) They don't \i{disappear} in
>> some magical way, but you start to see the structure of the code
>> rather than just "lots of fingernail clippings".
>
> I think the above is sufficient, and the rest is superfluous.
>
>>
>> @ Parentheses are an accident of history. Any other matching
>> delimiter would work just as well.
On further thought I could see that about this one.
>> @ Parentheses are an accident of syntax. They show block structure,
>> nothing more. You can view (a b c) as "(a b c)" or as
>>
>> +------+ +------+ +---------+
>> | a | ---> | b | ---> | c | nil |
>> +------+ +------+ +---------+
>>
>> Adding or removing parentheses -- or adding indentation -- to the
>> blocks-and-arrows notation makes no sense. To a Lisper that has
>> learned to recognize the () notation \i{as} the blocks-and-arrows
>> structure, it makes just as little sense.
I think this point expands on point 3. Perhaps I could combine and
shorten them?
>> @ Almost regardless of the actual merit (\i{*cough*} if any
>> \i{*cough*}) of your idea, most c.l.l.'ers (and probably other
>> Lispers, too) will greet your idea with derision and mockery.
I think this is worth pointing out to the newbie. Maybe could
rephrase as
Given all the above, if you go ahead and build or use an
indentation-based Lisp ("IBL"), be prepared to abandon it after
you get sufficiently into Lisp. And if you post about your IBL to
c.l.l., be prepared for a less-than-welcoming response. (We'd
love to hear about an IBL-er abandoning it for parentheses,
though. This would provide empirical evidence to which we could
direct later newbies.)
-- Larry
_______________________________________________
cl-faq mailing list
cl-faq@lispniks.com
http://www.lispniks.com/mailman/listinfo/cl-faq
