*I* have no technical problem here. I have a sales problem.
I need to sell people on the idea of Linux. Simplifying it is the main issue I have. I have plenty of case studies, and cost/benefits and stuff. Mostly, my original message was a RANT. I was irritated that the available software wasn't meeting my need. RH has a point and drool install, and 99% of what I need. I hate their KDE (almost) install. And my need for ACL support for Samba leaves me with no choice other than XFS or EXT2's ACL patch, either of which is a kernel redo. I just wanted to whine and cry like a little baby. That's all. Now it's time to set everything up. My road will lead to success, I just want it to be a smooth, easy road. Apparently that won't happen. I'll stop my blubbering, and get back to you this afternoon when it's built... Alternately, if I hit a snag, I'll come back with that too. Kev. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Nikitiuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:38 PM Subject: RE: (clug-talk) <rant> > If there is any sort of leg work or information gathering we can do as a > group for Kevin I think we should all band together (regardless of > differences) and try to assist him in developing his project. By us showing > unity and adequate support for our fellow geeks, we develop a more friendly > environment for L/OSS (Linux/Open Source Software) to flourish in. > > Kevin's road to success here makes ALL or our battles in the future easier > to win. I don't know much about Linux or red hat for that matter, but I > WILL PERSONALLY through up the offer for any sort of assistance I can. I > know Kevin and I have had problems in the past, but I am willing to overlook > those differences for the greater good...the promotion and propagation of > L/OSS. > > Kevin...feel free to contact me offline if I can be of any help. I am > awesome at researching and have told I have a great gift for > gab...promotions, selling, marketing, PR wise. > > Regards, > > Cameron > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Anderson [mailto:list-server@;myrealbox.com] > Sent: October 31, 2002 9:05 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: (clug-talk) <rant> > > > They need to approve it before it ever begins. > > And if I'm going to implement what is an unknown commodity for this new > company (We're being sold, remember, so past success means nothing. They > have zero experience with Linux. I already checked.) > > If I make a fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants proposal, then I'll look like an > idiot, AND I'll get shot down. Realistically, I also won't be very likely > to get a second try with it either. They're a pure NT shop. We've already > been told 99% that Exchange WILL BE our mail solution. > > On the other hand, if my presentation is complete, and addresses all of > their concerns and needs, and then I implement it, and complete everything > on schedule, or ahead, then the solution looks good, and so do I. > > I'll win where I can, and grow Linux from there. I can wait for a pure > network. Time has always shown that Linux is better, faster, and less > expensive. In a few years, when Mail needs to be replaced, I'll bring up > Linuxes successes. If there are no successes, then I have nothing to build > on. Plus, the company will be that much more dependant on legacy MS > products. > > I will cave to everything management wants so that Linux gets a foot in the > door. An arrogant attitude on my part won't get it there. I'm arrogant, > believe me, but telling a manager to "I'll give you what I want to give you, > and you'll shut up and like it" won't get me anywhere. > > Kev. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "S�bastien Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:52 PM > Subject: Re: (clug-talk) <rant> > > > Ugh, does management need to read your installation documentation? I > doubt it. > > Le Jeudi, 31 octo 2002, � 20:27 Canada/Mountain, Kevin Anderson a �crit > : > > > Ummm. I missed something somewhere. The distros are all pretty much > > equal > > if you want them to be. But that's a technical perspective. > > > > My concern is selling this to people who are NOT technical. Debian > > doesn't > > have the MIND SHARE that Red Hat does. And like it or not, that's a > > big > > part of my battle. It's hard enough to have people accept Linux. > > They've > > heard of Red Hat. IBM does Red Hat. Nobody has heard of Gentoo or > > Debian, > > at least not at the management level. Which is the level that > > technical > > installs are approved or vetoed at. > > > > I want my documentation to read "Install red Hat from cd. Select All > > packages. You're done" > > > > I do not want it to read. > > > > "Install <whatever flavor> download patches for X, Y, and Q. Apply > > them > > against the kernel. Run menuconfig, and choose this list of 175 > > options to > > compile into the kernel, and this list of 50 others to compile as > > modules. > > Compile the kernel. Compile the modules. Copy bzImage to /boot. > > Update > > LILO/GRUB. etc, etc, etc..." > > > > One sounds complete. One shounds like a patchwork of pieces that sort > > of > > work. *I* know otherwise, but you don't need to climb the food chain > > very > > far from <hands-on IT Admin title of choice> before this is a hopeless > > sale. > > > > Documentation should not exceed 2 pages per application. And if it > > strays > > more than 2 commands from "click next", the sale is going to fail. > > > > Kev. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Cade Cairns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:48 AM > > Subject: Re: (clug-talk) <rant> > > > > > >> oops.. didnt mean to put that forth in a belittling way. sorry. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Cade Cairns > >> > >> On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Cade Cairns wrote: > >> > >>> Of course. It's not like Debian is missing features that RedHat > >>> has.. > > I'm > >>> quite amused that you think that, though. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Cade Cairns > >>> > >>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Kevin Anderson wrote: > >>> > >>>> If I have a document to management that says something like "Then > > rebuild > >>>> the kernel, enabling extended attributes, etc" > >>>> > >>>> They'll ask "wouldn't XP be easier and faster?" > >>>> or > >>>> "Could you explain this to use so that we understand what is > > happening, and > >>>> why?" > >>>> or > >>>> "Does this mean that Red Hat 8 is unable to meet our needs?" > >>>> etc... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I chose Red Hat because management will have heard of it. It's way > > easier > >>>> to say "I need $100 to purchase a licensed copy of Red Hat" than to > > get > >>>> approval to "purchase a dozen pizza vouchers for Canberra's LUG". > >>>> And > > with > >>>> me wanting to avoid the need to recompile the kernel, does Debian > > REALLY fit > >>>> this scenario well? If I'm going a non-Red Hat route, it'll be > > Gentoo. And > >>>> that seems more likely with every passing minute. The main reason I > > skipped > >>>> Gentoo before is that 1.2 doesn't seem to work with Compaq's > > SmartArray RAID > >>>> Controllers. I'd assume 1.4 does, but I'd also like to see it > > released > >>>> rather than running an RC version. > >>>> > >>>> Kev. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "timmy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:24 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: (clug-talk) <rant> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And I don't want to rebuild the kernel, cause that sort of > > documentation > >>>>>> just blows. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't understand this statement. Which documentation are you > > referring > >>>> to? Do you need help with regards on how to compile a kernel from > > scratch? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
