I am not Rena, but I would say that the ARD DOES matter. Section T is a projection of minutes that therapy plans on giving the resident. It's an educated guess based on diagnosis, outcome of the eval, and planned goals. If the ARD is day 1, you would have to project the remaining 14 days. If the ARD is a few days into therapy's course of treatment, we don't need to project or make that educated guess on days up to the ARD because we know exactly what they already received. Just add what you already know to what you expect to get past the ARD up to day 15.--------Mike
Gail Neustadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am NOT sure if you are correct. I still maintain that it does not matter when the ARD date is set, Section T. asks to estimate as soon as the POC is established (type, amount, frequency and duration, although typically most plans of care do not include amount). This should be part of the evaluation process. The therapist may at that time estimate that the patient can achieve 60 minutes of therapy each session. If the patient only received 30 minutes of therapy each session, than that will be reflected in Section P. However 60 minutes in combination with the estimates of other disciplines providing treatment is entered onto the MDS in Section T. Section T. must me completed by the the ARD but has nothing to do with minutes actually received. RENA, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD SOMETHING. Again, actual minutes are entered in Section P and estimated minutes are entered in Section T. on the MDS.----- Original Message -----From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:13 AMSubject: Re: therapy minutesI think your estimate is also depending on when your ARD is. From my understanding if your ARD is on day 5 then even in section T you use the actual minutes received until day 5 and then project from day 6 thru day 7.LisaIn a message dated 4/10/2004 8:05:00 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:In my opinion your estimate would only be for seven days of the first 15
because you have prior knowledge that the patient is leaving on the 8th
day. Your minute count does not beging until therapy begins, evaluations
minutes do not count in Secttion T. OR Section P. documentation. Also, I do
not understand why, if you have two disciplines across 7 days, would your
estimated minutes be so low? It seems to me that you are making your
estimate after the fact. Section T. is meant to capture those days and
minutes that the therapists anticipate across the first 15 days immediately
after the initial evaluation. Section T. does not capture minutes were
already actualized, that is captured by Section P. In your example, the
actual therapy minutes are not 315 but rather 255 (minus the 60 for
evaluations) which RUGs the patient at RM. If you properly fill out Section
T and estimate 30 minutes of PT and OT each across 7 days, the estimate is
420 minutes and the patient will RUG at RH. Hope this helps.
Gail Neustadt,
GAil Neustadt, NHA
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:28 AM
Subject: therapy minutes
> I work at the SNF unit of a hospital, and most of our patients are high
level.When PT and OT evaluate these patients, usually the estimated duration
of therapy is 5-7 days only,then they're discharged home. Therapy orders are
usually written PT and OT daily for 7 days. My question is filling out the
section T of the MDS,in the estimated number of days and minutes. If the
patient is discharged after the 7th day therapy was rendered, should I enter
7 days as the estimate number of days, and the total minutes rendered on the
estimate number of minutes? Or should I calculate the estimated number of
days and minutes through day 15 eventhough i know from the start that this
patient will only stay here after 7 days of therapy?
> i.e....April 1 - date of admission
> 2 - PT/OT eval and tx day 1 = total min. for both = 60min
> 3 - day 2 of therapy 45min
> 4 - " 3 " 45min
> 5 - " 4 " 45min
> 6 - " 5 " 45min
> 7 - " 6 " 45min
> 8 - " 7 " 30min
> 9 - dc home
> The total therapy minutes for example is only 315 min. In section T,
should I write 7 days and 315 min? Or estimate until day 15 eventhough I
know that the patient will be discharged?
> Thanks...
>
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