> > From: Johan Steenkamp > > > > I think we are talking about a java-based CMS, so I guess JSP (as > > opposed to PHP, ASP etc.) that generates valid output. Right? > > > > In the end the CMS server technology is not really an issue. It > > is how the developers have used the technology to create the CMS > > output. For example if they generate a dynamic page and use > > invalid X/HTML markup then the page will of course not validate. > > Sorry about not being clear: Yes indeed, I mean a Java based, server > side cms/blog. Examples: roller, pebble, blojsom. > > Basically the problem is that these systems can be so automatic that > the user cannot completely control the emitted xhtml/css. Typically > this means either a table-centric design or bad xhtml/css. > > Since yesterdays mailing, I've discussed this with one of the authors > (pebble) and he's been considering conversion toward xhtml/css. > > I have to admit being quite surprised at this lack of control over the > xhtml/css output because Java has some really great solutions in that > space, and the religion of MVC (Model, View, Controller) is very well > intrenched. Velocity is a terrific templating engine. > > Interesting Cathedral vs Bazaar problem, I suspect. > > Let me know if you know of a good Java solution! > > Owen
Most of the J2EE programmers I know use the IDE that comes with their environment to generate HTML, and it is those tools that need to be overhauled. In the case of such products, like this, it would be good if they could work with a standards based designer to clean up the markup that their tools generate. It would be easy to blame them for not getting their stuff together in this area, but that would be unfair. Java is tough enough to stay on top of, just like anything else bleeding edge in IT. If the IDE generates the code, then that's better than hand coding, cause a programmer has more important things to do. But this is now changing because everyone is starting to see the value and ROI on standards based development. These things need teams where the skill set is spread across diverse areas. Developers tend to know and realise this, but unfortunately managers do not (yet). Everyone expects that a web developer covers all these domains are part of his job. It's just not feasible (apologies to the really brilliant ones out there who can). ----- Geoff ********************************************************* The CMS discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *********************************************************
