Very well put!
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018, 7:05:29 PM EST, Matthew L. Wolford via
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Thanks for clarifying things, Bill – and sorry for apparently causing
exasperation. Time to beat the dead horse: For those who understand what’s
going on, it is not that complicated. For those who do not, it is both
complicated and confusing. For example, your interpretation of the first
bulleted sentence in the advertisement (or whatever it is) is based on your
insight. Frankly, if BoatUS meant to say a boat owner must not display State
registration numbers on a federally documented boat, it should just say so.
Instead, the ad – entitled “Boat Documentation Requirements” – initially
suggests that a boat should be “identified” on the exterior of the hull as
either State registered or federally documented, but not both. This itself is
confusing because it mixes apples and oranges (titling and registration).
Moreover, a boat owner cannot use BoatUS graphics to “identify” a boat as
either State registered or federally documented on the exterior of the hull. A
critical reader will discover several bullets later that a federal document
number must be placed on the interior of the boat. A less informed boater
could easily conclude that a boat must be “identified” by its federal or State
number somewhere on the exterior – using BoatUS graphics, of course. The ad
concludes by noting: “Federal Vessel Documentation is a federal issue and is
not open to enforcement or interpretation by the state.” No legal advice
there. From: Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018
12:04 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bill Bina - gmail Subject: Re: Stus-List
Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation
This is true in all 50 states because it is a FEDERAL law. What the sentence
means is that the boat must not display state registration numbers if it is
documented. That is what they mean by "identified". This is not to say that
states cannot require you to register the boat. They just cannot require a
visible state registration number. They CAN display a sticker indicating that
state fees and taxes have been paid. That is not a registration number. I live
in Connecticut. My boat is Federally Documented and also registered in CT. The
markings on the boat are the name, hailing port and a small sticker from the
state that shows taxes and fees are current. Federal Documentation is the title
for the boat, and Connecticut uses my Doc number as the registration number on
the paperwork. No state is arguing about this, as it works just fine for all
concerned, and has for a long time. Most, but not all, states require a state
registration for Federally Documented boats. This is not a problem for anybody
involved. People seem to tie themselves in knots over this. It is not even
slightly complicated. BoatUS is not practicing law without a license, or
drawing their own conclusions. They are just stating the laws as they plainly
exist on the books.
Bill Bina
On 2/7/2018 11:40 AM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote:
I reviewed the first two bullet points from the BoatUS recital, and at least
in PA they are not (or may not) be correct:
- Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a
Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.
Not true in PA. There is a difference between titling and registration.
In PA, Federally documented boats are not required to be titled under the PA
Fish and Boat Code (and, I believe, cannot be State titled). However, they
must be registered. This change was made to the State statute in the 1990s and
became effective on March 1, 1998. Under the old requirements, federally
documented boats were exempt from State registration. Under the new
requirements, federally documented boats used for recreational purpose must be
registered. As far as I know, no one has challenged this scheme, and I doubt a
court would conclude that State registration requirements are preempted because
they are help the State keep track of boats and are not in conflict with
federal law regarding documentation.
- When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration Numbers
and Letters must be removed.
This I don’t know, but I suspect BoatUS is correct. The reason is that
federal law has requirements about how a federally documented boat must be
identified. To get around this issue, the PA Fish and Boat Commission requires
decals (not State registration numbers) to be placed on the boat. Most
sailboat owners place the decal on the mast. As we discussed in a
previous thread about this issue, this is a complicated and unclear area of law
which, not surprisingly, the U.S. Supreme Court has not addressed. BoatUS
would be wise not to give legal advice in promoting the sale of graphics.
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_______________________________________________
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
_______________________________________________
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
