Brewers Post Road Yacht Yard in Mamaroneck (now Safe Harbor)
The manager is Paul Muenzinger
914 698-0395

Rich Hulit
917 854-5537
[email protected]
Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos

> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1.  crack in stem fitting (David E Spiro)
>   2.  Does anyone want an old Raymarine C90w? (Bruce Whitmore)
>   3. Re:  [EXTERNAL]   Re:  Galvanic Isolators (Dreuge)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 16:53:45 -0400
> From: "David E Spiro" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Stus-List crack in stem fitting
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> My C&C40 (tall rig deep keel) has a crack in the stem fitting just in front
> of the attachment point for the jib roller-furler.  The crack is from midway
> port all the way through the starboard edge, and goes under the starboard
> chock.  
> 
> 
> 
> I hit a green buoy in the dark, just after getting distracted by my
> autopilot and plotter failing.  The collision point was at the bottom of the
> chain plate.  It did some damage to the fiberglass on the bow, and I assume
> the stem fitting cracked from the impact.  I was blissfully ignorant of the
> crack for the next couple days sailing up to NYC.
> 
> 
> 
> I've received conflicting advice on repairs.  Some people say I should have
> the whole piece fabricated.  Others say that a weld (perhaps reinforced with
> another piece of metal or a carbon fiber sheet) would actually be stronger.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have experience with this?   And does anyone have recommendations on
> where to get a replacement fabricated, if I go that route?  The boat is
> currently at our mooring at City Island Yacht Club in the western Long
> Island Sound, and someone in the NY/CT region would be great.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> David E Spiro
> 
> SV Hidden Hand
> 
> 
> 
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 21:34:33 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Bruce Whitmore <[email protected]>
> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Stus-List Does anyone want an old Raymarine C90w?
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello all,
> We have replaced our old Raymarine C90W.? It still works, though the rotary 
> trackpad membrane has failed.? 
> 
> If you want it, pay the shipping, and it's yours.
> Kindest Regards, 
> 
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C&C 37/40+"Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL 34677
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> [email protected]
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> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 18:11:30 -0400
> From: Dreuge <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL]   Re:  Galvanic Isolators
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Joe,
> 
> I think there is some confusion.   I?m also guessing that you did not follow 
> the link and read my more detailed blog discussion.   I don?t blame your 
> reaction, I would have reacted the same way a little while back.
> 
>> 
>> I disagree with this.
>> I have had a galvanic isolator since about 1995 or so. Mercury Marine sold 
>> them to keep their outdrives from dissolving back then and I grabbed one. I 
>> can go on for a while about how they work, but the short version is every 
>> boat at the marina is wired together by the ground wires and is essentially 
>> one giant boat. If your neighbors don?t have zincs, no problem, your zinc 
>> will cover for them! It may not last long doing triple duty though ? The 
>> galvanic isolator prevents this from happening.
> 
> First off, I did not argue that galvanic isolators do not work. They do.   I 
> stated that the connection of AC and DC grounds is a main factor leading to 
> galvanic corrosion and thus the need for galvanic isolation.   The only 
> reason for connecting the grounds is to provide an effective ground-fault 
> current path.   Eliminate the need for an effective ground-fault current 
> path, eliminates the need to connect the grounds.  Newer technologies provide 
> such a means.
> 
> I argued that connecting AC and DC grounds is not needed for ground fault 
> protection if the vessel is protected by a ground fault circuit 
> interrupter(ELCI).  This why the ABYC E-11 now requires all new vessels to 
> have such a device.   The European ISO requirements (see extract from ISO 
> 13297 in my blog discussion) specifically states that if a RCD (another name 
> for ELCI or GFCI) or  isolation transformer is installed then  '' the 
> negative ground terminal of the DC system need not be connected to the AC 
> shore ground'' .   I'm guessing the ABYC will eventually follow the ISO.  
> 
> My main point is that it is wise to install a whole-vessel ELCI.  These 
> provide greater safety, and these are now readily available and more 
> affordable than fail-safe GIs.   The Blue Seas A-Series ELCI Main Circuit 
> Breaker (model 3106100) which fits my Blue Seas panel costs under $150.  
> Fail-safe GIs cost well over $300.  My very robust under $10 DYI GI was 
> installed in what I called a ??Fail-Safe installation??.   That is, it was 
> installed between the AC and DC grounds rather than breaking the AC ground to 
> shore and inserting there.   The DYI GI, like the Yardina GI, is not 
> technically a ''fail-safe?? GI, Yardina claims that they have no reports of 
> their GI failing.   While these are very unlikely to fail, if it does fail, 
> it does not matter.   The only reason I have not yet removed my DYI GI and 
> AC/DC ground connection is that it does not matter.  
> 
> Your discussion below is not correct . Specifically, the statement of 
> ''deadly hazard ??.   A GFCI/ELCI would cut the power saving one from the 
> deadly hazard.  But even without GFCI/ELCI protection, it is more deadly to 
> have a hot wire in one hand and then touch the DC ground if the AC/DC grounds 
> are connected then if they are not connected.   That is, a deadly AC current 
> would flow better to the AC ground with the AC/DC ground wire than it would 
> with just an engine to seawater to AC ground connection.   
> 
> The actual reason for connecting the grounds is less for someone on the 
> vessel and more for the safety of swimmers.  Yes, it is wise for a vessel 
> without a main ELCI to connect the AC/DC grounds and if doing so then it is 
> smart to use a GI.   I would rather rephrase the last statement: it is unwise 
> nowadays  for a vessel with AC shore power connection to not have a 
> whole-vessel ELCI.    There is a reason why fewer companies are making 
> fail-safe GI.  I initially wondered why a company like Blue Seas, which 
> provides practically any electrical need, does not provide a galvanic 
> isolator.   But they do have this discussion on their website: 
> https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/AC_Circuits/88/Green_Wire_%5BControversy%5D
>  
> <https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/AC_Circuits/88/Green_Wire_[Controversy]>.
>    
> 
> For convenience, here is my original link:   
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/GalvanicIsolator 
> <http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/GalvanicIsolator%3Chttps://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=8c302211-d0a614f2-8c300b66-0cc47adc5fec-d02e08d2e81cb3ec&q=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsvjohannarose.blogspot.com%2Fsearch%2Flabel%2FGalvanicIsolator%3E>
> 
>> As far as not grounding the AC system to ships ground, this would be a large 
>> and dangerous violation of ABYC regs and they exist for a reason.
>> In a perfect world boats would have isolated 2 wire AC systems with no 
>> grounding at all. This is not the case presently and as long as various AC 
>> devices not built specifically for boats exist we have to deal with 
>> potential ground issues. Do not forget that the shoreside AC power *is not 
>> isolated* and you are floating in a more or less direct connection to the 
>> ground rod at the transformer and/or panel on shore. If some defective 
>> appliance puts AC voltage on any part accessible by a human you now have a 
>> hot wire in one hand and any part of the boats DC ground system is the other 
>> half of the circuit. This can be a deadly hazard on a boat depending on how 
>> good the green wire system on the boat and marina is and even if it is good 
>> you still can get a considerable charge through you. The interconnected 
>> grounds prevent this from happening.
>> The ONLY way I could see trying to make an isolated AC system besides for an 
>> isolation transformer, which is actually a great idea but big and heavy, is 
>> if the BOAT had an ELCI installed. You cannot count on every marina having 
>> one at their end.
>> Joe
>> Coquina
>> C&C 35 MK I
>> 
>> 
> 
> -
> Paul E.
> 1981 C&C Landfall 38 
> S/V Johanna Rose
> Fort Walton Beach, FL
> 
> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Dreuge via CnC-List
>> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2019 4:07 PM
>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Cc: Dreuge <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Galvanic Isolators
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would not spend much money on a galvanic isolator (GI).    The main cause 
>> of the galvanic corrosion is a result of connecting the AC and DC grounds.  
>> Check if you have these grounds connected.     Most older and smaller 
>> vessels don?t have the grounds connected and don?t have galvanic corrosion 
>> problem.  Also, the industry is moving away from this requirement.
>> 
>> One is better off investing in a whole vessel GFCI breaker(also called an 
>> ELCI Main Circuit Breaker).   These cost much less than a typical fail-safe 
>> GI and provide galvanic isolation from stray AC currents by disconnecting 
>> the power, and more importantly they provide much better ground fault 
>> protection than connecting AC & DC grounds.
>> 
>> If one still prefers bonding the AC & DC grounds then I would recommend the 
>> Yandina GI or better, a DYI GI,  and connect the GI between the AC to DC 
>> connection to provide a fail-safe connection.
>> 
>> I have a write up on my blog about this and also how to make a DYI GI, but 
>> in short, don?t waste money on an expensive GI, invest your money in an ELCI 
>> breaker, individual GFCI circuit protectors, and a decent marine charger 
>> (not a cheap HF/Walmart/Amazon brand )
>> 
>> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/GalvanicIsolator 
>> <http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/GalvanicIsolator%3Chttps://protect2.fireeye.com/url?k=8c302211-d0a614f2-8c300b66-0cc47adc5fec-d02e08d2e81cb3ec&q=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsvjohannarose.blogspot.com%2Fsearch%2Flabel%2FGalvanicIsolator%3E>
>> 
> 
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