On my 35 MKII which I just recently sold a mast bend to leeward worked very well going to weather. In fact the lower leeward shrouds became very slack and flopped around on a beat. Single spreader rig, forward and aft lower shrouds and mast like the trunk of a big oak tree set up with about 12 inches of rake upper shroud tension 12-1300, forward lowers 7-800, aft lowers 5-600 and hydraulic back stay adjuster never more than 2500 but typically 1000-1500.
On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 5:39 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List < [email protected]> wrote: > My mast has 3 spreaders like yours but the runner tails were not rigged to > run to any winches on my XL. Actually the main tail of the entire > combination (runners/check stays) has a 4:1 purchase and finally exits thru > a cam cleat on the last block which locks the runners. The runners/checks, > probably like yours, are rigged so that the highest one is connected to the > lower one and the lower one has an additional 4 or 6 to 1 purchase with a > smaller cam cleat so that the shorter lower one can be adjusted separately > of the longer higher one. > > Since my rigging replacement I have not measured the rig but previously > IIRC my rake was ~ 12 inches which was in the ball park of recommendations > from the lists. > > Since I no longer have a baby stay, I cannot bend my mast much since I > have nothing to hold or pull the middle of the mast forward--only the > hydraulic backstay to pull the top aft (and the runners/check stays to > prevent too much bend). OTOH, the 4:1 purchase is such that the crew pulls > up to tighten the purchase so they can get the runners/check stays pretty > tight without going to a winch. In fact when I saw them run to a winch from > some boat on the list, I was concerned that using a winch, especially if > there was already a purchase on the line, would be too much and pull the > attachment bail out of the deck! > > Downwind, we usually unclip the single connection of the runner/check stay > on the deck and let it be loose to avoid interfering with the > main--although I have used bungee cords at the deck level to pull them > forward, out of the way. > > I probably have to answer my questions with some on the water tests with > the runners as rigged, unrigged and rigged more forward to keep the mast > from sagging too far to leeward upwind. Too much sag to leeward has got to > be slow and/or reduce pointing especially in a breeze. In light air, like > you I could probably forget about them! > > Based on where they were rigged at the factory/dealer yard, their main > effect is clearly to steady the mast fore and aft. Whether their existence > was to improve performance/safety/etc. or merely to give a racy look to > what is a cruising boat is an open question. The reason I suspect this is > that my non-swept spreaders don't seem consistent to me (or my sail maker) > with the need for a baby stay--especially a baby stay mounted on a track > with some purchase and then run to a winch could but a heck of a bend in > the mast with non-swept spreader---but to what end? > > > Charlie > > PS: This issue has become more important as one of my competitors is a > well sailed J34C rated at 111 vs my 120. We finished tied for 1st place > last weekend in 12-15 knots with identical 1,1,2,2,2 records. The good news > is that this was the first time in years that I ever beat him, the bad news > is that he took the last race and hence the regatta! He can stay with me > upwind apparently at about the same angle so I need to get everything I can > out of my boat. Most other competitors cannot point with me so I usually > get to the weather mark first. OTOH, my LWL is only 30 feet and his is > closer to 34 so downwind, without a kite, he will overtake me if don't gain > enough going upwind. Hence my inquiry about the checks. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER <[email protected]> > To: Stus-List <[email protected]>; [email protected] < > [email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, Aug 18, 2022 1:33 pm > Subject: Re: Stus-List Runners/check-stays > > Hi Charlie, > Great topics as I'm tweaking my setup as well. I think it's important to > try different things and make the boat your own. > > My R model has the three spreader Offshore Spar with runners, checkstays, > single backstay with single hydraulic ram. Is your mast three spreaders or > the more common two? > > In my racing, we found the runners and checkstays were unnecessary below > ten knots of wind and most of my races were frustratingly below seven > knots. We did have a handful of strong wind races and we reefed down for a > few starts. I believe the runners and checkstays straighten the mast when > the backstay is applied. They limit the amount of bend and prevent > inversion. The previous owner of my boat rigged the runner/checkstays > closer to the centerline on the transom as many J-35's have done. He had > bunji cords pull the slack tails to the backstay at around ten feet above > the deck. This puts them aft of the mainsail leech. At the time, I didn't > understand that setup and returned the rig to design. > > Retractors: I took an idea from U20 sailboats and rigged bunji cords to > pull the runner/checkstays forward to the chainplates and hold them out of > the way. These work great for singlehanding and I can send you pictures. > However it adds lines that create a spider web look and I'm sure some crew > members wouldn't like climbing out of the cockpit under the bunji cord to > get onto the rail. > > The R model was designed w the runner tails running forward to turning > blocks and up to the outer winches on the cabintop. I recently added > clutches to the lines so I can free up that winch after setting the > runner/checkstay tension. Sometimes I need to adjust halyard tension. > Haven't sailed enough to judge this setup. > > Have you ever measured your prebend and mast rake? > > Chuck > > > > > On 08/18/2022 12:42 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hello all; > > My C&C 36 XL/kcb was delivered with the runners/check-stays run to the aft > rail just about the location of the original headsail winches. They are > rigged with a 4:1 purchase and are released/tightened depending on what > tack we are on. Downwind they are unshackled and pulled forward. > > I removed the baby stay and its purchase/track to save wear and tear on > the headsail during tacks so my boat is slightly modified from its factory > settings. I do have and use a hydraulic backstay adjuster and always race > with a roller furling headsail. > > I just had all the standing rigging replaced after 27 years of mostly PHRF > racing in the lighter airs of the Pamlico Sound/Neuse River in NC. With a > PHRF rating of 120 I am usually competitive with the fleet against similar > sized boats sailed reasonably well--which I manage to do most of the time. > > My question for this group, especially those with runners/check-stays > rigged, is two fold: > > 1. Given their aft location on the quarters, the angle they make with the > mast is mostly aft--I'd guess about 75 degrees from perpendicular to the > mast, or maybe 165 degrees off the bow. At that angle and purchase, they > certainly have a minor effect on pulling the mast to weather upwind, which > I understand is their main purpose (although they may also help prevent > mast pumping in serious chop). Question #1 is do I really need them as > currently set-up? > > 2. If the answer to question #1 is yes, my next question #2 is should I > move them forward so they have a better angle keeping the mast to windward > and perhaps increase their purchase? I know from these groups that some run > their runners/check-stays to winches to put some serious tension on them at > the expense of more trimming, etc. > > Before I do a sailing test with and without them, thoughts from the lists > are welcome. > > BTW, my mast is a relatively bendy Off-Shore spar--hardly a telephone > pole--so it can be bent with the hydraulic backstay adjuster. > > Thanks, > > Charlie Nelson > 1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb > Water Phantom > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "C&C 34/36 Owners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cc-3436/1216941450.122723.1660844033140%40connect.xfinity.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cc-3436/1216941450.122723.1660844033140%2540connect.xfinity.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile
