Hello, Birders. Brandon Percival writes:
> That is certain fine.� Everyone who see's this sparrow, ought to write > it up for the CBRC.� Hooray! Although I am rarely certain of anything (see previous postings from me on the matter), I am 100% certain that Brandon is correct that this is the right course of action. > Then, everyone will have the information (the first and last dates and > location > of occurrence), And more than just that, I would hope. In your write-up for the CBRC, be sure to say what the bird looked like; say which subspecies (singular) or subpecies (plural) you think it was. Say what it sounded like; compare what you're hearing with sound recordings at xeno-canto.org. Did you photograph the bird?--then submit photos. Did you audiorecord the bird?--then submit sound recordings. Do research. Know the facts. > if more of these things show up at this time of year in the future.� > If more of these sparrows show up well north of their range; then > this Colorado sighting, will need to be looked at again in the > future. Agreed. Completely. 100%. I would add here that our knowledge of avian status and distribution is forever changing. We need to be constantly reexamining our assumptions about how birds are distributed in time and space. > The biggest difference, is this sparrow is a popular caged bird and the > bird lives no where near the United States, Good points, especially in tandem with one another. But these two, alone, are not sufficient--for me, anyhow--to completely rule out wild origin. As Christian Nunes has noted, the number and diversity of birds caged south of the border is staggering. In the "bird markets" in Latin America and--even more so--in Asia, I have noticed literally *thousands* of birds most of us would not expect to see in cages, e.g., Red-throated Pipits. That's right: Red-throated Pipits are very popular in captivity. But I don't think that has a lot of bearing on the vagrancy of Red-throated Pipits to the Pacific coasts of Mexico and California. As to "no where near the United States," well, we in the USA do seem to get our share of White-crested Elaenias, Citrine Wagtails (in Mississippi, no less!), and such. > and the Long-billed Thrasher is not a caged bird (typically) I wonder about that. Do we know that? (Mind you, I'm not saying that Colorado's Long-billed Thrashers have escaped from cages.) > and all the Colorado sightings were from the same time > of year, winter, when southern birds tend to move north, > and the species is not that far away regularly in south Texas. Difference of degree. South Texas (thrasher), Chiapas (Rufous-collared Sparrow)...It's still pretty far away. > I think the CBRC has been extremely good about making great > decisions on birds that could be escapes or may not have made > their way to Colorado on their own.� Agreed. > They research everything, before a decision is made to add a bird > to the state list or not.� Agreed. > Who knows if they are right every time, Agreed, and that doesn't matter anyhow. Their most important role is to archive reports of and evidence for notable birds in Colorado. > though I think they do an extremely wonderful job to maintain > the official Colorado State List.� Agreed, although I think that that is of distinctly secondary importance to archiving reports of everything--whether or not "accepted" by the committee. The key thing in the case of the Georgetown, Clear Creek County, Rufous-collared Sparrow will *not* be whether the species gets added to the state list; the key thing will be that the committee will have archived the bird's occurrence in Colorado. > I think currently adding a popular caged bird -- Rufous-collared > Sparrow to the official Colorado State List, without any pattern of > vagrancy would be a bad decision, right now.� I don't think it would be good or bad. Kinda like I don't really care if folks are saying the world is going to end at 6am this coming Saturday, or at 7am. The bird's position on the state list isn't the point. The point, the whole point, is for the CBRC to document this bird's occurrence. As to "without any pattern of vagrancy," I'd be careful with that line of reasoning. I know where Brandon's coming from, but I'd would also say that we should be forever open to the possibility of changing distributional patterns for birds. And you have to start somewhere. There always has to be a first; one of those Colorado Long-billed Thrashers was a first. Here are some case studies to ponder: 1. A Xantus's Hummingbird, endemic to the Baja California Peninsula, showed up in British Columbia. That's quite a haul for a sedenary hummingbird, and the provincial (hah!) records committee rejected the bird on the grounds of origin. But then the ABA Checklist Committee swept in, and, in essence, "overturned the lower court's decision," and said the bird was probably of wild, natural origin. 2. A Golden-cheeked Warbler showed up, years ago, on an island off the coast of northern California. That was totally without precedent. But natural vagrancy was the most likely explanation, and the bird still stands among the some 650 species on the California list. 3. California's first Swallow-tailed Gull was assumed by many to be an escape. But that state has multiple records now, and the original record has been "upgraded" in the record books as a legitimate, wild vagrant. 4. Okay, maybe the hummer, warbler, and seagull above are just one-shot crazy vagrants. But what about the question of bird populations that are truly in the process of shifting their ranges? A great example of this is the Cave Swallow, now considered to be an annual, locally common, late-fall visitor to the northeastern USA. Just the other day, I was talking to a great birder back East who was telling me about his frustrations in trying to figure out when, more or less, this range-shift got underway. The problem, he's finding, is that birders--and to some extent records committees back East--did a lousy job of documenting the first records of Cave Swallows. Basically, folks weren't even paying attention. "They must all be Cliff Swallows," and "We don't get Cave Swallows here." Which goes back to Brandon's basic point, if I'm reading him the right way: Send documentation of this Clear Creek County Rufous-collared Sparrow to the Colorado Bird Records Committee!! > The Rufous-collared Sparrow is a colorful little bird, so go look at it if > you want, just don't complain to the CBRC members or CFO or to cobirds > asking for it to be accepted as a wild bird.� Agreed. 100%. And if YOU think it's a wild bird, go ahead and count it. Even if you do NOT think it's a wild bird, you can count it. Seriously. You really can. I have Indian Peafowl on my Boulder County list. > If anyone has strong feelings about it as being a wild bird, I strongly *dis*agree with the implication of the preceding. Even though I do *not* have strong feelings that this bird is wild, I will nonetheless submit documentation to the CBRC. I continue to maintain that this bird is likely of captive origin. Even so, I believe the bird ought to be documented for the CBRC. Here's an analogy. Without knowing the particulars of the Larimer County Tropical Parula from a few years ago (I didn't see the bird), I would instantly wonder: 1. How the heck did it get here? 2. Why on earth isn't it "just" a hybrid, as many--perhaps *most*--of the Lower Rio Grande Valley Birds are?? Fine, those are my own biases and opinions. But, had I seen the bird, I would surely have submitted to CBRC. I'd have told them what I saw (and heard), and they would render a decision. Fine with me. Less wondrous than the tropical parula are the several non-Mallard Mallard-type ducks I have seen in Colorado. I've been lucky (??-really?) enough to see two pretty good Mexican Ducks in 2011; a few summers ago, I saw a bird that looked a lot like an American Black Duck in, of all places, Routt County. Honestly, I, personally, am not sure what to make of these Mallard-type birds (Mexican Duck, American Black Duck; why, there's even a recent record of Mottled Duck from Wyoming). My own judgment is that such birds probably cannot be identified in the field in Colorado. All of them. That's right. Every stinkin' one of them. But the CBRC doesn't necessarily agree with me on that. So I tell them what I saw, and they judge. My point being: I think you should document the bird, *even if you do NOT* have strong feelings that it is a wild bird, or, a genetically "pure" bird, or whatever. That applies to Tropical Parulas and Rufous-collared Sparrows, to Mexican Ducks, American Black Ducks, and Glossy Ibises. > then write it up for the CBRC, and then wait a see if more > of them show up north of their range. > > Brandon Percival > Pueblo West, CO > no more from me on this subject Come on, man! We're just gettin' started... Ted Floyd [email protected] Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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