I don’t think Objective-C will ever be shut down since Swift also links to libobjc runtime library, which means Swift is, technically, a dialect of Objective-C with some syntactic sugar and compile-time checks allowing some more advanced programming techniques. Think this like the relationship between C#, Visual Basic .net, C++ CLI and F#, which all ends up being dialects of C#.
BTW, how will Apple support Swift on Linux? Open source Foundation and full version of CoreFoundation at the same time? How will the existing Objective-C-on-Linux projects like GNUstep handle that? > On Jun 13, 2015, at 13:16, David Delmonte <ddelmo...@me.com> wrote: > > Lurker here.. 1. My first language was PLAN. (I don’t know if you can even > find reference to it today - it was around circa 1966). I imagine that most > people on this list have projects in progress as the languages evolve and > change. Do you switch languages within a project? I am waiting on Swift until > my current workload is complete. > > Any ideas if/when Objective-C will be shut down? I am so slow these days that > I’m working hard to finish work before that happens. > > David > > ps. I find the discussions in this forum, as well as the Xcode and > ObjC-language lists to be quite stimulating. Is there a Swift list in the > works? > > >> On Jun 13, 2015, at 07:31, Maxthon Chan <m...@maxchan.info> wrote: >> >> Maybe my ID card says I am 22 but I had an early start on programming than >> most of my peers, so just treat me as a 40-year-old since I have some >> decades-old die-hard habits accumulated already. >> >> My first language ever learned is C actually, and then I spent almost 10 >> years tackling Visual Basic from version 3 up to .net framework 4.0, before >> I made the switch to Objective-C on OS X. Objective-C seemed to me like an >> almost perfect mix of C and Visual Basic .net (which is more or less a >> dialect of C#, which in turn is heavily influenced by Java) so my mind >> adapted to it very quickly. >> >> Swift 1.0 seemed unusable to me. It is too fragile, have functionalities >> missing, and is very confusing to use. Having to carry a 8MB runtime library >> with the resulting binary is also a big kicker. >> >> Swift 2.0 seemed a lot more useable to me and the fragility of Swift 1.x is >> gone. I will look into using that in some of my projects, and probably >> create some projects with that. HOWEVER if I am creating a library or a >> framework I will still use Objective-C as it is able to be more stable and >> use less dependency. >> >>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 11:56, Roland King <r...@rols.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 13 Jun 2015, at 10:32, Carl Hoefs <newsli...@autonomy.caltech.edu> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Okay, so now there's Swift. Ugh. At first glance it looks like a throwback >>>> to Basic (let x =), so it make me shudder. I suppose I'll hold my nose and >>>> learn it, but the main question would be why? Is there some glaring >>>> irredeemable deficiency in Obj C that will end its days? I don’t recall >>>> anyone clamoring for a new language… >>> >>> There were many. I saw many and increasing numbers of posts expressing >>> utter frustration with learning objective C in order to program for Apple >>> OS. Whole industries have grown up making it possible to program iOS (for >>> instance) in other languages, a lot of them suck. >>> >>>> >>>> What problem/issue/deficiency is Swift intended to address? The mindset I >>>> use when programming in Obj C is “pure and simple object orientation”. >>>> What mindset am I to adopt in learning Swift? I’m having a hard time >>>> getting a “feel” for Swift's orientation. It seems so… syntaxy. >>>> >>> >>> My 2c, one problem that Swift is intended to address is that computer >>> science, programming and compilers have moved on and the skillset and >>> expectations of newly minted programmers is for languages with the kind of >>> expressibility and features which Swift was designed for. What do people >>> who learn to program these days learn, at university, or in their bedrooms >>> on Sunday afternoons? I don’t know but I don’t think it’s C any more, it’s >>> Java, and Haskell and a host of others. I’ve been doing lots of embedded >>> programming the last year (Nordic BTLE stuff, in C, ARM Cortex) and I’m >>> sometimes flabbergasted by the questions and posts I see on the dev forums >>> there, people who are completely clueless about C programming, they just >>> don’t get it. If you read enough of these posts you start to see that their >>> expectation of what a programming language is and what it gives you is >>> different. >>> >>> Before I decided that working for a living was getting dull I worked at a >>> financial firm which had its own in-house financial modelling system. A >>> very good one, a very powerful one, somewhat dated and mostly written in C >>> and C++, but a clear competitive advantage. I know quite a few people who >>> left over the last few years and were lured to other shops to basically >>> rebuild this system. None of them are doing it in C and C++, they’re doing >>> it in python and Haskell (and one lot in C# but I don’t fancy their >>> chances). Why, because those languages and the patterns they use are what >>> the programmers in the market know. >>> >>> I believe that many programmers who learned their skills recently find >>> ObjC, and C, clunky throwbacks to a bye-gone age. They find them hard to >>> learn, verbose to program in and (again IMO) don’t do it very well. Bad, >>> inefficient, sloppy, security-hole filled code results from those who >>> aren’t turned right off the platforms in the first place. Something new was >>> needed to transition eventually away from ObjC for the most part and let >>> tomorrows programmers get on with the job of writing applications in the >>> kind of typesafe, rich programming languages they’ve grown up with. >>> >>> I had a rocky start with Swift. No disrespect to the team but V1.0 was >>> incomplete, the tools were a complete horror show and although it did >>> interoperate with ObjC it had so much friction that I found it much slower >>> to use and I dropped it for the little Apple OS stuff I was doing the last >>> year. I returned to it over the last couple of weeks, have been impressed >>> so far with Swift 2.0, not just the stability but the intelligent >>> improvements to the language and the almost unbelievable amount of work >>> which must have been done to the entirety of Cocoa to ‘Swiftify’ it. This >>> years WWDC videos have been super thus far (who’s the guy did the Improving >>> Your Existing Apps With Swift, he was great) and the tone’s different. Last >>> year I felt it was ‘Swift is here, your grandmother could use it, here’s >>> how it works, off you go”. This year, with the benefit of 12 months of bug >>> reports and real-world experience of the problems people have had they are >>> more how to think in Swift, best design practices for using it and much >>> more practical. >>> >>> I’m a way away from being great at Swift, I still need to think more about >>> protocols and extensions and value types, but I’m getting better, but I >>> certainly see the potential power of it and can do a half-decent job of >>> using it. It’s going to get only better, so am I. >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) >> >> Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. >> Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com >> >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/ddelmonte%40mac.com >> >> This email sent to ddelmo...@mac.com >
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