We might consider smacking the developers around to start commenting
things. Pretend you are writing generator for the first time and you are looking
at the API documentation for documentation on what the parameters are to the
AbstractGenerator.setup() method. After you are done looking at the 0
documentation there, look around and you will see that the API is very badly
commented, if at all.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:10
AM
Subject: Re: Cocoon is complex, HOLD ON,
WHY IS THIS BOILING UP ?
<stop-lurking>
Hussayn is absolutely right here - there is a huge case that has
built
up over the last year for giving a "newbie-friendly" face to
Cocoon.
We can go on for hours (and have, before) about power and
scalability and performance and XSLT issues etc etc etc BUT
all of those things should flow on *after* starting with Cocoon and
NOT be part of the sales pitch. I am not saying Cocoon should
try
and be all things to all people... but there is clearly starting to be
enough people who have picked up on the increased publicity around
Cocoon and want to "give it a try" - for the most part their needs
are
simple and so their "getting" started path should be as well... IF
we
want to keep these users in the community (if only as users ;-)
THEN
there is a very strong case to get a section of the website devoted
solely
with a newbie in mind (maybe once it is designed we can eat some
humble pie and go back to ask some of the previously critical
newbies
to crit it for us) - ideally this should be quite separate from the main
site [with an equivalent "DONT PANIC" sign pointing clearly to it
from
the index page]. Everything on that subsite should be geared
towards
a promise of "3 hours (or whatever time frame seems reasonable) until
your first app" type of message. Work? Of course, but, maybe
not as
much as we think - all the bits and pieces are there (some on wiki,
some
on mailing list, some on main site) but just need to be assembled
with
thought and care (eg. no confusing links to obsure and non-relevant
pages
on the main site etc). Benefits? An influx of "new blood"
and, maybe
(dare I say it) some converts from the jsp/.net/php camps.
Is xml/xsl really dead (as has been suggested)? If we don't think
so
it should really be possible to demonstrate this in a straightforward
way!
My 2c for the bonfire.
Derek
PS And yes, I am willing to help with testing and critical review of
docs
and installing etc - and, once it looks reasonable, willing to
coerce 2 of
my newbie colleagues, who have previously expressed interest in
Cocoon,
to try it out "cold".
</stop-lurking>
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2003
01:49:53 >>>
I wonder why sometimes when it comes to criticism of
cocoon
the arguments fly higher and higher until someone gets
really
pissed of and angry ...
And why is it so many times a newbie who
becomes the center
of this game ? (Also one of my first newbie questions
boiled
up beyond the limits, but i'm still there ...)
Please dont
missunderstand me. In general i think the comunity
takes care of many many
questions and very valuable information
is flowing around, but we also
should take special care about any
strong criticism on cocoon. And
especially the newbies can give
so valuable insight, even if they seem to
be ignorant (they
aren't ignorant at all. They are new to this
!!!)
Maybe we should calm down a bit and take this thread
really
serious. It contains much of material to think about.
And in many
senses the criticism here can't be discussed
away.
regards,
hussayn
--
Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
SAXESS Software Design
GmbH
Neuenhöfer Allee 125
50935 Köln
Telefon:
+49-221-56011-0
Fax:
+49-221-56011-20
E-Mail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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