> From: "Robert Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Is not cocoon's power or anything else that I'm arguing with. There is an > > extremely serious bug in cocoon that is causing me to not be able to use > it > > at all. It is clear that cocoon was developed to be a single solution and > to > > not integrate with technologies such as application servers. > > This is not true. If Cocoon does not integrate with a particular application > server then this doesn't mean that it was done intentionally. You can easily > see even from comments in the source that Cocoon were used with WebSphere, > WebLogic, iPlanet and several other servers.
It is true. Noone in their right mind makign a large system woudl deploy every damn jar in the WAR file. That would be psycho. The maintenance alone to make sure you had the right versions in the appserver and war would be a nightmare. Perhaps if you are developing a littly SQL app to keep track of employess cocoon is fine. If you try doing anything serious,issues like hte classloader issue bring it to its knees. And no, that isnt the only issue. > > >The classloader > > issue, http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16580, would > make > > it ridiculous for me to do anything in cocoon. If I have to deploy all 100 > > EJB libs of the company I work for in cocoon as well as in the application > > server, than my colleagues would rightly laugh themselves silly. In fact I > > cant believe this issue even exists in a product this mature. I am looking > at > > probably 3 months to get this fixed, minimum, if it is ever fixed. At that > > point I will have to wait for a release of the product, as my company > would > > throw me at the door for putting up a bleeding edge CVS build. > > The good thing in open source is that you always can take care of any bug > yourself and provide a patch which would be definitely applied if it's of a > good quality. No no no... you dont get it. Im a consumer. Im a professional programmer. Im not some guy hackign in his dorm room between classes. I dotn have TIME to learn the detailed integrated architecture of every little product I use. What really broke the proverbial camel's back was that bug beign reclassified from high priority to normal. Its at that point that final irritation set in. it woudl take me 3 months just ot figure out how the internals of cocoon works. Lets face it, its not documented worth a damn. Even the API is documented extremely poorly. Once I figured out how it worked I would have to figure out a resolution to the problem and THEN get apache to accept the resolution. All this before my product is done and my customers are looking to download and use it. NOT. > > So basically I'm screwed when I comes to my book and when it comes to my > > company. Cocoon is pretty much out. I guess I have to throw out 2 weeks of > > agonizing work and I dot know how many emails and recode the whole damn > thing > > in JSP. Lovely. > > I'd recommend to use Struts in case you choose JSP. But of course, that > depends on requirements to your project. If you have to deal with various > output formats, need customizable pages, need integrations with external XML > datasources then it's worth trying to overcome Cocoon bug in some way: try > to fix it, raise this issue on cocoon dev list, try to play with your app > server settings (maybe declare those jars in Manifest - it's possible > according to Servlet Spec), etc. No, Im notgoing to mess with struts. That would be another 2 weeks to learn. Im already severly bummed that it looks like ive wasted 2 weeks of work. Im not going o make it worse. The first version in the book is going to have to be straight JSP without frameworks. Do I like it? No. Do I have a choice? No. Ive even tried to build it from source even though I have little clue what im doing. You cant just jump into 500+ quasi documented source files and figure out the problem in 15 minutes. > > -- > Konstantin > > > > > Well, I suppose it could be worse. I dot see much market for Cocoon > > developers anyway. > > > > -- Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:44 AM > > Subject: Re: Cocoon Competence Center Updates > > > > > > > Hy Robert, > > > > > > I appreciate your honesty. > > > I hope, you keep with us. I think you can really help > > > getting this into the next generation... > > > > > > just a few of my experiences if you don't mind ... > > > > > > 0.) i use to install minimalistic components when > > > i start investigating. in this sense i only > > > needed tomcat-4.*.* to start. just installed it > > > and ready to go... > > > > > > 1.) When i started working with cocoon i first got > > > very very frustrated: > > > sitemap not working as i expected > > > actions, uhh? > > > logicsheets, sounds good, howto??? > > > and so on ... > > > I even did not know, what to ask in detail. > > > > > > 3.) very slowly i got a first overview. i only scratched > > > the surface and one day (after about two weeks) i got > > > hit by realizing the hidden mightiness of the beast. > > > "Hey that's great, this works fine, > > > ahh what easy going here and there..." > > > Until now i still only was playing with the very > > > basics (sitemap, generator, protocol handlers) > > > > > > 4.) After reviewing my first experiences with cocoon i came > > > to the conclusions: > > > - its very complex > > > - it has great oportunities > > > - it is "complex documented" > > > - it moves fast > > > - it neads quality assurance to get mature > > > > > > My decisions: > > > > > > - use cocoon in my own projects > > > - help cocoon users to get a clear understanding > > > with less frustrations > > > > > > I'm still happy with cocoon and im still only using the very > > > basics. I am curious where i can get with XSP and ESQL ;-) > > > > > > regards, hussayn > > > > > > > > > Robert Simmons wrote: > > > > Fine ... I'm beginning to loose interest to be honest. Right now I > cant > > do > > > > anything with XSP with cocoon at all. because of the classpath bug it > > looks > > > > like two weeks of my work are about to explode in my face. Sigh. > > > > > > > > -- Robert > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:12 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Cocoon Competence Center Updates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hy, Robert; > > > >> > > > >>Thank you very much for the contributions. > > > >> > > > >>I propose to move parts of your contrib into another page. > > > >> > > > >>reasons: > > > >> > > > >>1.) this page deals with deploying cocoon. it should not cover > > > >> essentials of cocoon internals. this is the next story to be > > > >> covered, once cocoon is deployed. > > > >> > > > >>2.) i want this document to be for "beginning beginners", (we used > > > >> to name them nebies ;-). Yes we should prepare a doc, that > > > >> contains your hints and tips, but maybe this is an add on > > > >> page ? > > > >> > > > >>if nobody complains, i will move your contribs to another page, but > > > >>keep the super esssentials in the doc (and point to the new pages > where > > > >>relevant) > > > >> > > > >>is that ok for you Robert? > > > >> > > > >>regards, Hussayn > > > >> > > > >>Robert Simmons wrote: > > > >> > > > >>>Greetings, I have added the following information to the cocoon > > > >>>competence center page on installing cocoon. Please feel free to > review > > > >>>the following sections and smack me around if I said anything > incorrect. > > > >>>The new sections are. > > > >>> > > > >>>* Deploying on an application server. > > > >>>* What is essential? > > > >>> > > > >>>-- Robert > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>-- > > > >>Dr. Hussayn Dabbous > > > >>SAXESS Software Design GmbH > > > >>Neuenhöfer Allee 125 > > > >>50935 Köln > > > >>Telefon: +49-221-56011-0 > > > >>Fax: +49-221-56011-20 > > > >>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>Please check that your question has not already been answered in the > > > >>FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> > > > >> > > > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >>For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the > > > > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Hussayn Dabbous > > > SAXESS Software Design GmbH > > > Neuenhöfer Allee 125 > > > 50935 Köln > > > Telefon: +49-221-56011-0 > > > Fax: +49-221-56011-20 > > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the > > > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the > > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
