Mark- I would highly recommend looking at Tornado (http://www.tornadoweb.org) as an alternative to using Django without the ORM. It provides URL dispatch and templating capabilities without commitment to a particular storage model, and is fast in standalone use, without requiring extra scaffolding like WSGI. It has been an extremely productive framework for me. - BPA
Bradley P. Allen http://bradleypallen.org On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Mark Tomko <mark.to...@simmons.edu> wrote: > Have people found Django fairly usable without using its ORM features? I'm > not a big ORM fan, and it seems that so many Python frameworks sort of fall > over if you try to get around the ORM. > > It's a bit of a shame, because I like Python. I wish Bottle and Flask were > a little easier to work with. It feels a little weird having to configure > WSGI for each application. I love their minimalist approach to templating, > though. > > Mark > > On Oct 29, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Genny Engel wrote: > >> I think the significant attributes of most programming languages are >> adequately summarized here: >> >> http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: Code for Libraries [code4...@listserv.nd.edu] on behalf of William >> Sexton [will.sex...@duke.edu] >> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:24 AM >> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP vs. Python [was: Re: Django] >> >> I use Python and Django extensively, and think they're both great. That >> said, also great is the very funny keynote by former flickr engineer Cal >> Henderson at DjangoCon 2008, titled "Why I Hate Django," which is on >> YouTube: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Fr65PFqfk >> >> When he showed the slide I had to admit that the statement >> >> "-".join(array) >> >> is kind of a goofy way to do that, though maybe not "unforgivable." >> Whenever I use join() now I chuckle a little in my mind. >> >> It's good to step back and re-evaluate your favorite tools from >> time-to-time. If nothing else, the ability to analyze a platform for its >> suitability to a need is key. >> >> Will >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Thomas Bennett wrote: >> >>> Having used Zope (python based) as our WEB server of choice since 1998 I >>> am >>> urged to express my opinion that if you do choose to use python in your >>> projects then use a service designed for python use such as Zope, Django, >>> et >>> al. Zope is normally run in front of Apache as a virtual host. >>> >>> If you are going to use python then Zope is an excellent choice for >>> interacting with databases and using python to massage/manipulate results >>> if >>> you need complex results from the database data. I like that you can >>> write >>> sql queries just like you might use on the command line and save it as >>> an >>> individual object for use by any number of other objects. >>> >>> What may be a simple example to some is a tutorial quiz I wrote for the >>> WEB. >>> There are categories and each category has any number of questions along >>> with >>> the answers in the database. In the management portion, the >>> administrator can >>> choose which categories are active and how many questions out of the >>> total >>> available to pull from each category individually. When the quiz page is >>> generated the correct number of questions are pulled randomly from the >>> total >>> active questions for each category, some questions can be set as >>> inactive. >>> >>> There are "database connectors" for PostgreSQL, MySQL, Oracle, odbc, and >>> others so you can choose any popular db or write your own connector. And >>> there are python libraries written for these databases which prove very >>> useful. >>> >>> The main thing I like about python is that the syntax pretty much forces >>> your >>> code to be readable by others because indention is part of the syntax >>> rather >>> than semicolons, parens, etc. >>> >>> I don't know PHP in detail but am learning more quickly because the >>> University >>> is "forcing" all departments to move to Drupal and we will be running our >>> site >>> on Drupal within a year probably although some administrative tasks will >>> still >>> be running on our Zope server. >>> >>> Thomas >>> >>> ps: remember my point is that "IF" you choose to use python this supports >>> its >>> use with databases and scripting. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday 27 October 2010 20:49:06 you wrote: >>>> >>>> Olá, como vai? >>>> >>>> Luciano Ramalho <luci...@ramalho.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Actually, Python is a general purpose programming language. It was not >>>>> created specifically for server side scripting like PHP was. But it is >>>>> very suitable to that task. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure talking about what something used to be is as interesting >>>> as talking about what it is. Both Pyhton and PHP can share whatever >>>> moniker we choose (scripting-language, programming language, >>>> real-time, half-time, bytecoded, virtual, etc.). >>>> >>>>>> Not seen any scientific packages, but I've seen a few ray-tracers, >>>>>> although they're all demo apps and fun toys (although I think that >>>>>> applies to Python, too). >>>>> >>>>> No, that does not apply to Python. Python is widely used for hardcore >>>>> scientific computing. >>>> >>>> I was referring to the ray-tracing part. >>>> >>>>> It is also the most important scripting language in large scale CGI >>>>> settings >>>> >>>> Yes, Python is widely used for scripting up interfaces into other more >>>> complex systems. But rarely is the core of the thing written entirely >>>> in Python. >>>> >>>>>> Maybe your Google-foo is weak. :) >>>>> >>>>> Or maybe he's just realizing that outside of server side web >>>>> scripting, PHP is just not so widely used. >>>> >>>> Absolutely, and fair enough. >>>> >>>>> Having used both languages, I discovered that Python is easier for >>>>> most tasks, and one reason is that the libraries that come with Python >>>>> are extremely robust, well tested and consistent. >>>> >>>> Hmm. PHP is extremely robust and well-tested, but yes, it's not all >>>> that consistent, especially not before version 5.2+. However, things >>>> have moved on, and with release 6 around the corner things will be >>>> tighter still. Just like the first versions of Python were >>>> interesting, so was PHP's, but where the biggest problem with the >>>> evolution of PHP was the very fact that it was the most popular >>>> language for rapid web development by far. >>>> >>>>> PHP is very >>>>> practical for server-side web scripting, but it's libraries are >>>>> unfortunately full of gotchas, traps and unexpected behaviour. >>>> >>>> There's gotchas in every language, even Python. >>>> >>>>> A key reason for that is the fact that Python has always had an >>>>> exception-handling mechanism while PHP has grown something like that >>>>> only a few years ago >>>> >>>> True enough. But earlier versions of any language are less desirable >>>> than the latest versions, so I'm not sure this is a prevailing >>>> argument for the horribleness of PHP or any language. These things >>>> evolve. PHP 5.3+ and soon 6 are looking very good, indeed, but yes, we >>>> will just have to live with a poor reputation brought on by the big >>>> number of users and the pre 5.2+ era. >>>> >>>>> So, I my opinion, PHP is great at what it does best: enabling quick >>>>> server-side Web scripting on almost any hosting service on Earth. >>>> >>>> I'm fairly sure you can say that because you haven't done much other >>>> kind of PHP work. :) >>>> >>>>> For everything else, it is very worthwhile to learn and use a general >>>>> purpose dynamic language such as Python, Ruby or Perl. >>>> >>>> Of course. Developers should learn many of languages, and choose >>>> wisely the language best suited to the problem at hand. >>>> >>>>> Sorry for the rant. I must confess I am a founder of the Brazilian >>>>> Python Association and was its first president, so you can call me a >>>>> Python advocate. >>>> >>>> No bias at all, really. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ========================================== >>> Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett Appalachian State University >>> Operations & Systems Analyst P O Box 32026 >>> University Library Boone, North Carolina >>> 28608 >>> (828) 262 6587 >>> >>> Library Systems Help Desk: https://www.library.appstate.edu/help/ >>> ========================================== >
