I don't think running one's own Hacker News OR Reddit is a particularly
sustainable thing to do.
I say as someone who's looked into both, for daydreams of improving the
planet.code4lib stuff. They're both fairly complicated codebases, with
multiple components that need to be installed, and not a lot of
documentation (as they are mainly developed for their patrons, they code
is made available open source, but is not really documented/supported
for other people).
Really, I don't think running virtually ANY software of our own for
'code4lib' is particularly sustainable, we're already having trouble
sufficiently maintaining what we've already got; this stuff ends up
being a lot more work than expected to maintain, and after the initial
novelty of "implementing a new thing!" wears off (if not before :) ),
difficult to find volunteer labor to maintain.
Especially without knowing if people are going to use the thing anyway.
If there's a free service that already does what you want, why not just
use it, and see if it catches on? Well, in this case because some people
are objecting to www.reddit.com as a service, I guess. Personally, I
think those objects are at least in part mis-placed, reddit is just a
big place where lots of stuff happens (like youtube, or the internet):
check out for instance http://www.reddit.com/r/feminism
http://www.reddit.com/r/transgender ). But maybe I'm wrong on this.
Either way though, I kind of suspect nobody would be using a /r/Code4Lib
anyway, honestly. On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong about that too, I
just went to look up the 'libraries' reddit some folks created a while
ago to show that it didn't get much use -- but found it actually IS
getting some use! http://www.reddit.com/r/libraries
On 12/3/2012 11:34 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote:
I'm not particularly sold on Reddit. I just think that there are some
types of discussions that might be more constructive with a threaded
forum than a listserv, just like there are some types of communication
that are more suited to IRC or the wiki. In line with Jonathan's
comments, we're not going to stop using YouTube just because it's filled
with trolls, right?
I only suggested and created the subreddit because it's easy to set up
and requires very little maintenance. I, for one, am open to
suggestions for tools with similar functionality, so long as they don't
require too much maintenance.
Looking at the Hacker News source code... anyone know Arc? :)
-Shaun
On 12/3/12 11:23 AM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote:
Reddit tends to be a pretty segmented place, there are many "subreddits"
that exist, IMO, as more or less 'culturally autonomous' from the rest
of the reddit, with little interaction with other parts of reddit. Just
people taking advantage of reddit to do their own thing.
Reddit's UI makes it easy for these subreddits to stay completely
separate, there's really little in the UI that brings people from one
area of reddit to another or makes them end up 'combined'.
I believe that there are many sub-communities on reddit that do not have
this misogyny problem, even if reddit's "brand" has sadly become known
for misogyny. I could be wrong, but I'd suggest finding out by asking
friends of yours that are redditors (or finding out if friends of yours
are redditors, heh), rather than assuming based on media reports that
anything on reddit is doomed. Mainstream media is not very good at
covering virtual communities, even still.
That said, I still don't think a Code4Lib subreddit is likely to become
a particularly useful idea, I think it's unlikely to ever achieve
'critical mass' (It has been tried before, there's both a code4lib and a
libraries subreddit that have existed for quite a while without
significant uptake, aren't there?)
On 12/2/2012 1:44 PM, Karen Coyle wrote:
*sigh* From an article about sexual harassment on reddit:
"Reddit is a notoriously male-dominated forum. According to Google's
DoubleClick Ad Planner, Reddit users in the U.S.
<https://www.google.com/adplanner/site_profile#siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%2520Reddit.com&geo=001&lp=false>
are 72 percent male. Reddit subgroups include r/mensrights and the
misogynistic r/chokeabitch, perhaps in part prompting another popular
thread that asked recently, "Why is Reddit so anti-women?"
<http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_is_reddit_so_antiwomen_outside_of_rgonewild/>
In April, a confused 14-year-old user took to the site in a desperate
attempt to seek advice after she had been sexually assaulted
<http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_think_i_might_have_been_raped_on_420please_help/>.
Jezebel chronicled the backlash, as commenters attacked the young victim
for overreacting
<http://jezebel.com/5904323/reddit-is-officially-the-worst-possible-place-for-rape-victims-to-seek-advice>.
Given its reputation, the site may seem less than appropriate as a forum
for effective dialogue."[1]
Which doesn't mean that we should boycott reddit, but it is good to know
the make-up and culture of tools that you use. And I think I have yet to
find a thread on ANY TOPIC on slashdot that doesn't have the word "tits"
in it somewhere. I just read the post about the possible move to a $1
coin in the US, and the first post is about strippers. FIRST POST.
*sigh* Although perhaps the question now is: which will happen first -
acceptance of a $1 coin in the US or a Slashdot thread that isn't
sexist?
kc
[1]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/reddit-rapists_n_1714854.html
On 11/30/12 9:51 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote:
Mark and Karen, yes, the DIY and take-initiative ethos of Code4Lib
leads to a lot of channels. I think this is a good thing as each has
its strengths. But it creates chaos without more clarity on what
platforms are best for certain types of communication?
We have similar issues when it comes to our own internal documentation
attempts at Princeton. Wiki? Git? Git Wiki? IRC? Blogosphere? Reddit?
Listserv? Twitter? Why should I use any of them?!?
I will say that I like Reddit for potentially controversial or
philosophical discussions. It's built to keep the conversation on
track and reward the most insightful/best comments with more
visibility.
So, anyway, I've posted this discussion on the subreddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/code4lib/comments/1426fn/the_diy_and_takeinitiative_ethos_of_code4lib/
I also added a post on mentorship to the subreddit, since I'm
particularly interested in that. Karen, while I think your comments
on "promotion" and "giving credit" are important, I'm not sure how
they are related to mentorship. Would love to hear more about that in
the subreddit.
-Shaun
On 11/30/12 12:30 PM, Mark A. Matienzo wrote:
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Karen Coyle <li...@kcoyle.net>
wrote:
Wow. We could not have gotten a better follow-up to our long thread
about
coders and non-coders.
I don't git. I've used it to read code, but never contributed. I even
downloaded a gui with a cute icon that is supposed to make it easy,
and it
still is going to take some learning.
So I'm afraid that it either needs to be on a different platform for
editing, OR someone (you know, the famed "someone") is going to have
to do
updates for us non-gitters.
Karen, I've added instructions about how to add contributions without
knowing Git to the README file:
https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/README.md
If you'd like, I'm happy to have feedback as to changes here. A small
handful of people have also asked if we could move this to another
platform such as the Code4lib wiki. I'd be happy to get feedback if
that would be a preferable option.
Mark
