Re: [CODE4LIB] Question abt the code4libwomen idea

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 11:19:49 -0800 

Hi All,
Not trying to keep this thread going on forever. But, I do want to say that, based on the discussion thus far, I do believe that MJ's opinion is in the minority. At least, from what I've heard, this seems to be the case. 


Personally, I feel that it's absolutely wonderful that #libtechwomen has 
been created, and I think it can only benefit code4lib and other 
technology/library groups by encouraging more involvement from women & 
minorities in general.



I don't see this as a fragmentation of our community, but rather a 
natural growth into "interest/support groups" which can better 
concentrate on specific issues & provide support around such issues.



We have to admit that code4lib has grown rapidly over the years, and as 
it continues to grow it will become harder & harder to "hear" all the 
voices/opinions/issues without providing a place for discussions that is 
NOT #code4lib IRC. (No offense meant to #code4lib IRC. As a chatroom 
grows in membership, it will naturally become a bit more intimidating to 
newbies. No matter how much you try to be welcoming, no newbie wants to 
come across the wrong way / say the wrong thing in front of 100+ tech 
folks from throughout the world.)



So, yay for #libtechwomen & all those who have had the guts to get it 
started! It's obviously a much needed discussion & support space (as 
also made evident from this continued thread). I hope the code4lib 
community can encourage even more such spaces in the future.


- Tim

--
Tim Donohue
Technical Lead for DSpace Project
DuraSpace.org

On 12/17/2012 12:20 PM, Lisa H Kurt wrote:

Robin ++.

MJ - I can't barely respond to you. This is rather upsetting because the
very group of people that want and need and are willing to gather to
create such an initiative are being told no. I don't think a group that
offers support and learning focused toward a marginalized membership base
is discrimination. There are many women in tech groups and they exist for
a reason and work well. People can't learn if they don't feel comfortable
and safe. If people wonder why women feel intimidated and not part of
things- it's this attitude right here.

How sad.

On 12/13/12 2:09 PM, "Robin Schaaf" <[email protected]> wrote:


MJ, when you put everything under Equality, it dilutes each individual
purpose.  I find this type of response aggravating, actually (and enough
that I'm actually sending an email (which I never do) about this!)
Women have different issues than other groups - even stuff like when you
have a kid and take a year off, how do you keep up on your mad
programming skillz?  Or program with pregnancy-brain?
We often have different ways to look at things - obviously not less, but
different. But in a predominantly male field it's easy to get lost or
feel like an outsider (or heck, to be assumed in marketing!)

If you want to be inclusive, you need to have a supportive environment.
It's probably hard for anyone to imagine themselves a part of community
when being outnumbered 20 to 1, especially with responses that dismiss
something that multiple women are interested in.

-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
MJ Ray
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Question abt the code4libwomen idea


On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Bess Sadler <[email protected]>
wrote:

There have been some contradictory statements made about
#libtechwomen because it was an emerging idea, and like code4lib,
there is no formal power structure or authority. There is no
requirement that one be female to participate, [...]


That is good to know and a big improvement.


The suggestion has been made that the name "libtechwomen" might not
be welcoming to someone who wants to participate but does not
identify as a woman. We have already discussed changing it and
welcome suggestions.


I suggest libtechEquality - any progress with other suggestions?

Cary Gordon <[email protected]>

Are there folks out there who think that you can only be in one IRC
room at a time? If I want to be in the #190cmtall room, nobody in
#code4lib would know, nor would it be any of their business. Are there
people here who really feel threatened by this?


That's not really a similar thing, but might indicate other problems.
Would we not be troubled by code4lib<anything>, just because it could be
kept hidden and you could use code4lib anyway?

Regards,
--
MJ Ray
Setchey, Norfolk, England

























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