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The page "Meeting20121010" has been deleted by JoanTouzet: https://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Meeting20121010?action=diff&rev1=3&rev2=4 Comment: Outdated, nothing actionable...nothing memorable. If we had a full archive of meeting minutes, that would be one thing... - ## page was renamed from Meeting20121014 - <<Include(EditTheWiki)>> - Meeting Minutes via -- DaveCottlehuber <<DateTime(2012-10-14T21:28:34Z)>> - - <<TableOfContents(1)>> - - = Futon2 = - - * Broad consensus that we want to merge in @bigbluehat's [[https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2|futon2]] but that futon2 should not be a blocker - * @mainerror & @eckoit are keen to help with futon2 - * <!> @eckoit to tell us where futon2 is at in next meeting - - - = Doc Versions = - - What versions of documentation should we aim to provide? - - * Propose to provide from 1.3.0 onwards only - * Changes since 1.2.0 should be easy to separate / keep clean - * <!> @dch to find a way to track which features were introduced in each release - * <!> @dch to note who is working on what in documentation land - - = CouchApp Tool & Format = - - * @dch proposed to defer til after 1.3.0 on settling on a specific couchapp format and work on a consensus approach - * @eckoit and @chewbranca are keen to be involved in spearheading that with @benoitc - * Should we bundle [[https://github.com/benoitc/erica|erica]] @benoitc's erlang based couchapp tool? - - = CORS = - - * Everybody wants to see this in 1.3.0 - * <!> @benoitc hopes to branch this in the next couple of days - - = 1.3.0 = - - * Docs, CORS, and bug fixes are on the list - * If you have blockers for 1.3.0 mark them as such in JIRA - * <!> @wendall911 to coordinate packaging tests/integration for 1.3.0 - * <!> @wendall911 to raise packaging a more recent erlang within .rpm/.deb files as part of packaging discussions - - * @mainerror & @wohali will help - * <!> @dch to review open JIRAs for blockers - - = Test Suite = - - * <!> @kocolosk and @benoitc to send summary of how tests are handled in bigcouch & refuge - * read up on [[http://learnyousomeerlang.com/common-test-for-uncommon-tests|Common Test]] - * Feels like a > 1.3.0 thing - * @wendall911 is interested in MOAR tests - - = Merge All the Forks = - - * Very small number of people who will be directly involved - * Great opportunity to expose the inner workings & design choices inside CouchDB - * Looking for suggestions on how the wider CouchDB dev group can assist this - * Consensus around build system is required, suggesting post 1.3.0 - * Nobody has yet disagreed to rebar wrapped in autotools, [[https://github.com/seth/rebar-tools|locked rebar deps]] may be useful - * <!> @wendall911 and @wohali will consider this in packaging work - * <!> @kocolosk to provide woolly update on how cloudant and bigcouch and couchdb fit together in the new world order - - = Admin = - - * 9pm Wednesday seems like a good time for those who made it (non sequitur of the century) - * <!> @dch to send out proper timezone announcement for next meeting - * <!> skip the bot and use @noe instead - - = Other Stuff = - - * <!> @dch is setting up a "Learn to Hack on Erlang/CouchDB" group with @garrenmsith following from @wohali's efforts earlier this year - * <!> @noe to organise a learnyou/hack/something @couchdb.apache.org list for that - * @janl notes everybody needs to spend 10 hours watching his [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdDmRLa6q1s|horse]] - - = IRC summary = - - {{{ - [2012/10/10 21:02] dch: I assume we have a quorum, so I suggest anybody who has a topic they want to cover just replies #topic <stuff> - [2012/10/10 21:03] eckoit: #topic bundle erica - [2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic cors & docs - [2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic paperwork - how suitable is this time & date? - [2012/10/10 21:04] dch: #topic 1.3.0 priorities - [2012/10/10 21:04] eckoit: #topic default couchapp format - [2012/10/10 21:05] jan____: #topic look at my horse - [2012/10/10 21:08] dch: #topic send out a proper timezone announcement, duly noted - [2012/10/10 21:09] dch: #topic doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:10] noe: #startmeeting - [2012/10/10 21:12] jan____: #topic futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:12] noe: #startmeeting - [2012/10/10 21:12] dch: #startmeeting - [2012/10/10 21:14] noe: #chair bitdiddle davisp dch dch fdmanana jan____ JasonSmith jsonified kocolosk tilgovi - [2012/10/10 21:17] noe: #info dch indicates broad consensus that we want to merge in futon2 https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:18] noe: #info jan____ wants us to kick off an exploratory work to see if this will work - [2012/10/10 21:19] noe: #action eckoit will talk to bigbluehat and find out current status of futon2 for next week - [2012/10/10 21:20] dch: #info mainerror eckoit put hands up for helping futon2 integration - [2012/10/10 21:20] noe: dch: i #action-ed that already :) - [2012/10/10 21:22] noe: #action mainerror to post summary of frameworks options about futon to mailing list - [2012/10/10 21:22] dch: #action use @noe as the bot and forgo the pythonscript - [2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:24] noe: (we need to do both, as the bot would do the subject for us. the #topic command is for the post-processing later) - [2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: >> fix typo, closes pr #29 - [2012/10/10 21:25] noe: #topic doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:25] dch: #question what versions of couch should we aim to provide docs for? - [2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs should target the 1.3 line and later - [2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs in 1.3 should only cover changes since 1.2 - [2012/10/10 21:30] noe: #info dch plans to go ahead with doc plans unless anyone objects on the mailing list - [2012/10/10 21:31] dch: #action dch to find way to track when features were introducted in docs - [2012/10/10 21:32] dch: #action dch to note who's working on what wrt to doc features/changes - [2012/10/10 21:33] dch: #topic couchapp format - [2012/10/10 21:38] dch: #info proposed to defer fixing a couchapp format post 1.3, and work on a consensus approach - [2012/10/10 21:41] noe: #info ekoit and chewbranca both expressed interest in leading couchapp effort with benoitc - [2012/10/10 21:44] dch: #action noe to send out release cadence as discussed in Eire with rnewson - [2012/10/10 21:46] dch: #action: dch to include link to release cadence - [2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: does that deserve an #action? - [2012/10/10 21:47] noe: #topic cors - [2012/10/10 21:48] noe: #info benoitc will branch the cors code tomorrow - [2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #topic meeting time/day - [2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #action dch to humbly apologise in minutes for jumping the gun, and see if we have any people in asia timezone who are left out - [2012/10/10 21:50] dch: #info general consensus from those who made it that this time works for them (!) - [2012/10/10 21:51] noe: # 1.3.0 prios - [2012/10/10 21:51] noe: #topic 1.3.0 prios - [2012/10/10 21:51] dch: #topic 1.3.0 prios - [2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action dch will go through JIRA and mark items that block 1.3 release - [2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: noe: For the minutes, http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/FrontPage#Getting_Involved ... http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/IRC_Meeting_Minutes - [2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action nslater will assist dch with JIRA efforts - [2012/10/10 21:54] dch: #action wendall911 and Wohali to get stuck into packaging - [2012/10/10 21:55] noe: #action nslater to announce 1.3 blockers JIRA workflow, and invite contribution to final feature list - [2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: noe: [#COUCHDB-1346] CouchDB hangs during start of view indexing - ASF JIRA - [2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite, - [2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite, - [2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite - [2012/10/10 22:02] dch: #info try to keep this short in future - [2012/10/10 22:04] dch: how about #info kocolosk and benoitc to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the ball rolling? I see this as a 1.3+ - [2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you gonna #action that? - [2012/10/10 22:05] dch: #topic pouch into futon - [2012/10/10 22:06] dch: #action kocolosk to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the discussion - [2012/10/10 22:06] noe: #info wendall911 has offered to help with the tests - [2012/10/10 22:08] noe: #info pouch in futon discussion tabled until dale can join us - [2012/10/10 22:08] dch: #rhetorical - [2012/10/10 22:09] dch: #topic merge all the forks - [2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info bigcouch merge dependant on community consensus around build system - [2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info build system discussion to be brought to a close asap after 1.3 - [2012/10/10 22:19] dch: #info refer to https://github.com/seth/rebar-tools for dependency locking - [2012/10/10 22:19] noe: mainerror: ask in #asfinfra - [2012/10/10 22:21] noe: #action wendall911 to take point on cleaning up build 0.9 cruft - [2012/10/10 22:22] noe: #action Wohali to help wendall911 with build system work - [2012/10/10 22:22] dch: #action kocolosk to provide woolly update on how cloudant and bigcouch and couchdb fit together in the NEW WORLD ORDER - [2012/10/10 22:25] noe: #action noe to set up a LYSE mailing list - [2012/10/10 22:27] noe: #endmeeting - [2012/10/10 22:31] tilgovi: benoitc: what is this?? https://github.com/refuge/rcouch/blob/master/package/deb/Makefile#L8 - }}} - - = Full Transcript = - - {{{ - [2012/10/10 21:00] dch: I hereby declare the first IRC meeting of the CouchDB Pirates open, avast ye SQL users! - [2012/10/10 21:01] dch: Um we were going to have a cool little bot to track everything, but between times my computer is very dead so I'll do it by hand - [2012/10/10 21:01] Kxepal: dch: my head explode if I'll go rewrite one legacy java service that doesn't respect http protocol and works like rpc xml server - [2012/10/10 21:02] Kxepal: so ok(: - [2012/10/10 21:02] dch: I assume we have a quorum, so I suggest anybody who has a topic they want to cover just replies #topic <stuff> - [2012/10/10 21:02] johntiger: Dave, not sure what topics you want to cover but docs seem active - also could we discuss CORS - [2012/10/10 21:02] dch: then we'll go through them 1 by 1, I'll change the irc title so you know where we are - [2012/10/10 21:02] dch: johntiger: welcome, I love the irc handle :-) - [2012/10/10 21:03] eckoit: #topic bundle erica - [2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic cors & docs - [2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic paperwork - how suitable is this time & date? - [2012/10/10 21:04] dch: #topic 1.3.0 priorities - [2012/10/10 21:04] dch: I'll call a close on topics at 10 past latest. - [2012/10/10 21:04] eckoit: #topic default couchapp format - [2012/10/10 21:05] jan____: #topic look at my horse - [2012/10/10 21:05] mainerror: :o - [2012/10/10 21:06] noe: huh we started already? - [2012/10/10 21:06] noe: i thought it was 9pm my time - [2012/10/10 21:06] noe: dch: have you started the meeting? - [2012/10/10 21:06] noe: i.e. via the meeting bot? - [2012/10/10 21:06] noe: Kxepal: pong - [2012/10/10 21:07] mainerror: <dch> Um we were going to have a cool little bot to track everything, but between times my computer is very dead so I'll do it by hand - [2012/10/10 21:07] noe: dch: if so what is the bot's name? - [2012/10/10 21:07] noe: oh, that's a shame - [2012/10/10 21:07] jan____: noe: the email said 9pm dch's time - [2012/10/10 21:07] noe: the bot produces minutes its very cool - [2012/10/10 21:07] noe: UTC, which i translated as 9 utc for me - [2012/10/10 21:07] noe: or, rather, 9 for me - [2012/10/10 21:08] noe: nae bother - [2012/10/10 21:08] jan____: "at 9pm Vienna time" - [2012/10/10 21:08] green_turtle: utc+2 - [2012/10/10 21:08] noe: okay - [2012/10/10 21:08] noe: sorry to derail - [2012/10/10 21:08] Kxepal: noe: I'd to ask about versions of couch that docs have to cover, but with dch advice we'll stop at 1.2 and 1.3 for now. is it ok? - [2012/10/10 21:08] dch: #topic send out a proper timezone announcement, duly noted - [2012/10/10 21:08] emjayess: jan____: you've a horse outside? - [2012/10/10 21:09] dch: #topic doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:09] jan____: emjayess: inside :) - [2012/10/10 21:09] mainerror: A pony? - [2012/10/10 21:09] noe: dch: when do we start? - [2012/10/10 21:10] jan____: aaaanyway - [2012/10/10 21:10] green_turtle: Kxepal: Cloudant use 1.0.2 so maybe it makes sense to includ it? - [2012/10/10 21:10] Kxepal: green_turtle: not problem for me, just need to setup limit how deeper to dig google and git log(: - [2012/10/10 21:10] noe: #startmeeting - [2012/10/10 21:11] noe: dch it is not here - [2012/10/10 21:12] jan____: #topic futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:12] mainerror: Oh god, I forgot about Futon2! - [2012/10/10 21:12] noe: #startmeeting - [2012/10/10 21:12] dch: cool, - [2012/10/10 21:12] dch: #startmeeting - [2012/10/10 21:13] noe: o_O - [2012/10/10 21:13] dch: so topics, futon2, doc versions, couchapp format, horse, cors, meeting time/day, 1.3.0 prios, bundle erica, - [2012/10/10 21:13] noe: dch the bot isn't working - [2012/10/10 21:13] noe: it should announce the meeting has started - [2012/10/10 21:14] dch: aah well no pb, we'll survive - [2012/10/10 21:14] noe: okay, i will issue commands as if it is here - [2012/10/10 21:14] dch changed the topic tomeeting - futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:14] noe: i hope you saved the original topic - [2012/10/10 21:14] dch: ok so futon2, jan____ you have the floor - [2012/10/10 21:14] dch: @noe: natch - [2012/10/10 21:14] potatoeye: Pfft. They are royally boned. - [2012/10/10 21:14] noe: #chair bitdiddle davisp dch dch fdmanana jan____ JasonSmith jsonified kocolosk tilgovi - [2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: Woha! — So, we all agree that we need more Futon, and to get that we agreed to start over - [2012/10/10 21:15] noe: we did? - [2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: hence futon2. Currently residing at https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:15] tilgovi: oh, hi - [2012/10/10 21:15] noe: tilgovi: we're having a couchdb meeting - [2012/10/10 21:15] dch: the chairs recognise tilgovi, and forgives him for his absence - [2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: last commit 3 months ago, for a while it looked like there was good progress and I’d like to find out where we are and what tneeds doing - [2012/10/10 21:15] tilgovi: I see this - [2012/10/10 21:15] noe: jan____: is there broad consensus that we want to merge this in? - [2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: noe: kindasortainformally - [2012/10/10 21:16] noe: if not, should we attempt to build it? - [2012/10/10 21:16] dch: yes. - [2012/10/10 21:16] dch: its done sort of as a couchapp which isn't a bad move IMHO anyway. - [2012/10/10 21:16] mainerror: nods - [2012/10/10 21:16] noe: if we did this, would it be pre or post 1.3? - [2012/10/10 21:16] jan____: noe: yeah, this is a "lets see if we can build it" and then merge if we get it - [2012/10/10 21:17] jan____: noe: doesn't matter, it ships when it is done (visavis timed releases that we kindasorta do :) - [2012/10/10 21:17] kocolosk: heh - [2012/10/10 21:17] dch: I think post 1.3 unless TAMO (Then A Miracle Occurs). Given need for more changes as a result of BC merge, it makes sense to do it once & right - [2012/10/10 21:17] jan____: sooo, is anyone from the futon2 team here? - [2012/10/10 21:17] noe: #info dch indicates broad consensus that we want to merge in futon2 https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:17] dch: question: do we have any front-end devs who would be willing / keen to get involved? - [2012/10/10 21:17] eckoit: raises hand - [2012/10/10 21:18] dch: woot! - [2012/10/10 21:18] Kxepal: +1 - [2012/10/10 21:18] noe: #info jan____ wants us to kick off an exploratory work to see if this will work - [2012/10/10 21:18] mainerror: Well, I'm not exactly from the Futon2 team (officially) but I wanted to go for integrating Bootstrap and replacing jQuery UI. - [2012/10/10 21:18] jan____: (fwfw, I just installed the latest version and it looks fairly solid) - [2012/10/10 21:18] noe: eckoit, mainerror is this something you think you could look at between now and next week? - [2012/10/10 21:18] jan____: (code wise, it is still the old old sammy.js based one that mikeal started) - [2012/10/10 21:18] dch: mainerror: I'm +0 on framework changes, but we do need to realise that futon2 is used along with the test suite as an example of how to play with couch. - [2012/10/10 21:19] eckoit: noe: yes, I will talk to bigbluehat and see where its at, and whats left, etc - [2012/10/10 21:19] noe: thanks! - [2012/10/10 21:19] dch: mainerror: what does bootstrap (I thought it was largely UI elements) have to do with this? - [2012/10/10 21:19] jan____: I am +1 to switch to whatever gets this shipped :) - [2012/10/10 21:19] noe: #action eckoit will talk to bigbluehat and find out current status of futon2 for next week - [2012/10/10 21:19] mainerror: Can't promise next week due to a stressful timetable next week. - [2012/10/10 21:19] dch: anybody else interested in putting their hand up? - [2012/10/10 21:19] mainerror: dch: I don't quite understand the question. - [2012/10/10 21:20] noe: mainerror: anyone else wanna help eckoit out - [2012/10/10 21:20] Wohali: for futon? not my area of expertise - [2012/10/10 21:20] dch: #info mainerror eckoit put hands up for helping futon2 integration - [2012/10/10 21:20] noe: dch: i #action-ed that already :) - [2012/10/10 21:20] kocolosk: dch: good point, and i think we don't necessarily want to encourage more jquery.couch.js usage - [2012/10/10 21:20] mainerror: jQuery UI is extremely ugly in terms of code - [2012/10/10 21:20] wendall911: I'm a leaning to +0 on framework changes. I'm sure sammy.js is great and all, but really having yet another framework in the mix might be bad - [2012/10/10 21:20] Wohali: is jquery a dead dog? - [2012/10/10 21:20] wendall911: something clean that could be incorporated into any framework as a base would be ideal - [2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: Wohali: no, certainly not - but the jquery.couch thing is getting long in the tooth - [2012/10/10 21:21] wendall911: Wohali: jquery-ui != jquery - [2012/10/10 21:21] eckoit: mainerror: bikeshedding on bootstrap, we can discuss as we dig into it - [2012/10/10 21:21] Wohali: ahhhh - [2012/10/10 21:21] dch: let's not beat this to death, mainerror do you are you happy to send a summary to the ML on the evils of framework X and the wisdom of some alternative option? - [2012/10/10 21:21] noe: +1 for eckoit - [2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: nods - [2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: I think backbone(+chaplin) are what one would use today instead of sammy. - [2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: nods - [2012/10/10 21:21] wendall911: agrees - [2012/10/10 21:21] Wohali: i'm still stunned there is activity in here and things are moving along - [2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: but again, whatever feels best for the people who actually wrok on it - [2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: *work - [2012/10/10 21:21] noe: Wohali: ? - [2012/10/10 21:21] mainerror: dch: I guess I could yes. - [2012/10/10 21:22] noe: #action mainerror to post summary of frameworks options about futon to mailing list - [2012/10/10 21:22] dch: #action use @noe as the bot and forgo the pythonscript - [2012/10/10 21:22] dch: ok, shall we move along? - [2012/10/10 21:22] eckoit: one more thing - [2012/10/10 21:22] noe: dch: the bot will format all of this! - [2012/10/10 21:23]dch changed the topic tomeeting - doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:23] dch: eckoit: shoot - [2012/10/10 21:23] noe: can someone sumarise the issues here? - [2012/10/10 21:23]dch changed the topic tomeeting - futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:23] eckoit: I did a lot of work with pouch db to get get tracis tests going - [2012/10/10 21:23] dch: <mea culpa> - [2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: would like to do the same with futon2 and the couch test suite - [2012/10/10 21:24] noe: (we need to do both, as the bot would do the subject for us. the #topic command is for the post-processing later) - [2012/10/10 21:24] dch: k, lets put that as a separate item on agenda - [2012/10/10 21:24] dch: ok? - [2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: kind of a cross topic between futon3 and testing, ok - [2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: seperate item - [2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: (futon2) :) - [2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: 3...@apache.org origin/master * ca88701 (2 files) https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=couchdb.git;a=commit;h=ca88701 : - [2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: >> fix typo, closes pr #29 - [2012/10/10 21:24] tilgovi: can we get pouch into futon2 :) - [2012/10/10 21:24]dch changed the topic tomeeting - doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:25] noe: #topic doc versions - [2012/10/10 21:25] dch: tilgovi: lets add that as an other topic aight? - [2012/10/10 21:25] tilgovi: yep - [2012/10/10 21:25] noe: okay so can someone explain the doc versions question to me? - [2012/10/10 21:25] dch: #question what versions of couch should we aim to provide docs for? - [2012/10/10 21:25] Kxepal: noe: for how many couchdb releases sphinx-docs have to be shipped? - [2012/10/10 21:26] dch: I'm suggesting 1.2.0 & then any changes for 1.3.0. That's already quite a bit of work. - [2012/10/10 21:26] Kxepal: e.g. 1.3 and 1.2 ok. is for 1.1? 1.0? - [2012/10/10 21:26] noe: right, this comes back to my argument that each release should document itself, and perhaps some notes about previous versions - [2012/10/10 21:26] dch: 1.1 in principle we could ship "as is", just removing a couple of bits. - [2012/10/10 21:26] noe: but you should be able to get the docs for previous versions... from previous versions - [2012/10/10 21:26] dch: I'd question whether that is worth the effort. - [2012/10/10 21:26] Kxepal: quetsion is how many this vesionadded versionchanges have to be - [2012/10/10 21:27] Kxepal: need some base release to start count - [2012/10/10 21:27] noe: just between 1.2 and 1.3 i guess - [2012/10/10 21:27] noe: as if 1.2 had full docs - [2012/10/10 21:27] jan____: -1 on going back until we have this streamlined for current versions - [2012/10/10 21:27] wendall911: we've all been using the wiki or referencing source for years. Having 1.2+ docs would be acceptable. - [2012/10/10 21:27] dch: I would be happy to work on backporting the scripts & bits from 1.3.0 to 1.1.1 if there's a feeling we need that. But after 1.3.0 - [2012/10/10 21:27] noe: i dont see any point - [2012/10/10 21:27] noe: docs for 1.3 lines and later - [2012/10/10 21:27] tilgovi: +1 - [2012/10/10 21:27] dch: any naysayers? - [2012/10/10 21:28] wendall911: yeah, 1.3 forward is good :) - [2012/10/10 21:28] mainerror: +1 - [2012/10/10 21:28] dch: noe: how do we note that as a decision? - [2012/10/10 21:28] Kxepal: and it doesn't matter to assign in which version thing was changes or introduced? - [2012/10/10 21:28] noe: dch: we dont. we cant make decisions in this meeting. - [2012/10/10 21:28] dch: noe: ack, my bad - [2012/10/10 21:28] noe: dch: but we should note it as info and let people on the ml object - [2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs should target the 1.3 line and later - [2012/10/10 21:29] green_turtle: what kind of docs do you mean? - [2012/10/10 21:29] dch: Kxepal: shouldn't be a problem, we can add appropriate version links to the website as needed - [2012/10/10 21:29] green_turtle: wiki? - [2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs in 1.3 should only cover changes since 1.2 - [2012/10/10 21:29] Kxepal: dch: ok, got it - [2012/10/10 21:29] tilgovi: Kxepal: it would seem to me a requirement that additions/changes to the docs note the version in which they were introduced... if that's what you mean? - [2012/10/10 21:29] Kxepal: tilgovi: yes - [2012/10/10 21:30] dch: green_turtle: we are talking about a finalised version of http://couchdb.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html, donated from couchbase, and to match 1.3.0 - [2012/10/10 21:30] green_turtle: i mentioned that Cloudant uses 1.0.2 - [2012/10/10 21:30] noe: #info dch plans to go ahead with doc plans unless anyone objects on the mailing list - [2012/10/10 21:31] dch: #action dch to find way to track when features were introducted in docs - [2012/10/10 21:31] dch: any other doc-related points before we move on? - [2012/10/10 21:31] tilgovi: oof... the configuration options need some help with the descriptions - [2012/10/10 21:31] kocolosk: green_turtle: we'll fix that - [2012/10/10 21:32] green_turtle: cool - [2012/10/10 21:32] noe: tilgovi: we should have some changes to that landing shortly - [2012/10/10 21:32] dch: tilgovi: yeah, people are working on that atm - [2012/10/10 21:32] tilgovi: oustanding - [2012/10/10 21:32] dch: #action dch to note who's working on what wrt to doc features/changes - [2012/10/10 21:33]dch changed the topic tomeeting - couchapp format - [2012/10/10 21:33] dch: #topic couchapp format - [2012/10/10 21:34] dch: eckoit: you're up - [2012/10/10 21:34] noe: i think we should punt this until post-1.3 maybe? - [2012/10/10 21:34] eckoit: ok this is from the heated ml discussion - [2012/10/10 21:35] eckoit: I just wanted to back up and say we need to serve two masters with this those just doing views, lists, etc and those doing couchapps - [2012/10/10 21:35] eckoit: and I think they have different needs - [2012/10/10 21:35]hitchcock.freenode.net sets mode+o ChanServ - [2012/10/10 21:35] dch: summarising, there are 2 main formats used, and a host of others. kanso/couchapp.node.js == single file per ddoc, couchapp == directory hierarchy. - [2012/10/10 21:36] eckoit: well we have to start with the traditional couchapp I think - [2012/10/10 21:36] dch: I think bumping this post 1.3.0 will not harm anybody. But we did agree in the summit to go ahead with <something>. - [2012/10/10 21:36] noe: right - [2012/10/10 21:36] noe: i would like some consensus building around this activity - [2012/10/10 21:37] dch: benoitc has said he's willing to integrate erica (the current erlangbased incarnation of couchapp) - [2012/10/10 21:37] eckoit: I am fine with talking about this later then. But was hoping to get erica with 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:37] noe: and then we can make a proposal and Just Do It™ - [2012/10/10 21:37] noe: but i dont want to distract benoit from his current efforts, wrt 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:37] dch: kanso is awesome, however it is dependent on node.js. still a fast moving target - [2012/10/10 21:37] dch: so what's next steps here eckoit, anybody? - [2012/10/10 21:37] eckoit: I agree, I dont want kanso as the default - [2012/10/10 21:37] noe: punt until 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:37] dch: but we shouldnt break it eithe. - [2012/10/10 21:37] noe: then we should start a consensus building process - [2012/10/10 21:37] noe: and draft a proposal - [2012/10/10 21:38] noe: (or more than one if we're split) - [2012/10/10 21:38] dch: #info proposed to defer fixing a couchapp format post 1.3, and work on a consensus approach - [2012/10/10 21:38] eckoit: sure - [2012/10/10 21:38] dch: anybody interested in pushing that along? It's worth a jira ticket and improving your erlang. - [2012/10/10 21:39] noe: i would like to see eckoit and benoitc lead this effort - [2012/10/10 21:39] noe: they're at the helm of our meaningful couchapp work - [2012/10/10 21:39] dch: this is a good area (relatively free from dependencies on core couch) to get another erlangy person up to speed. - [2012/10/10 21:39] jan____: +1 - [2012/10/10 21:39] noe: yeah, good point - [2012/10/10 21:39] chewbranca: I would be interested in helping out as well - [2012/10/10 21:40] dch: chewbranca: you live!! welcome brother :-) - [2012/10/10 21:40] noe: eckoit: you know erlang? - [2012/10/10 21:40] noe: does not - [2012/10/10 21:40] wendall911: I think from what benoit was pointing out, that we could conceivably support more than one approach with OTP - [2012/10/10 21:40] eckoit: noe: nope - [2012/10/10 21:40] dch: wendall911: easily, yes. - [2012/10/10 21:40] chewbranca: dch hahaha yeah finally stepped from under my lurking rock - [2012/10/10 21:40] wendall911: cool, so I think that's worth pointing out - [2012/10/10 21:40] mainerror: is currently learning Erlang - [2012/10/10 21:41] noe: eckoit: you interested in picking it up with the benoitc for this couchapp stuff? :) - [2012/10/10 21:41] noe: man, typo city tonight for me - [2012/10/10 21:41] eckoit: noe: sure. I will get my hands dirty - [2012/10/10 21:41] chewbranca: I'm picking up erlang right now as well, I should be able to help out a bit with the couchapp stuff on both the javascript app side and some level of the erlang side - [2012/10/10 21:41] dch: eckoit: ok, let's tag team then, and use this as a LYSE opportunity. - [2012/10/10 21:41] noe: #info ekoit and chewbranca both expressed interest in leading couchapp effort with benoitc - [2012/10/10 21:41] dch: I *love* our meetingbot - [2012/10/10 21:42] dch: any furthers? - [2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: I say if we can bundle erica with 1.3 as is, and then next release tweak the formats - [2012/10/10 21:42] dch: further questions? - [2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: is anyone opposed to that? - [2012/10/10 21:42] noe: that sounds contentious - [2012/10/10 21:42] noe: what would be the point of that? - [2012/10/10 21:42] noe: seems like we'd be going off half-cocked - [2012/10/10 21:42] noe: may as well wait until we've decided what we want to do fur realz - [2012/10/10 21:42] benoitc: will publish first the cors patch tomorrow - [2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: hmm, well we need something to load futon2 - [2012/10/10 21:42] noe: and again, i dont want to overburden benoitc - [2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: erica why nto depends on the release time - [2012/10/10 21:43] dch: let's put that to the list. - [2012/10/10 21:43] noe: futon2 for 1.3?? i am not sure that was discussed - [2012/10/10 21:43] noe: lets not be over-ambitious - [2012/10/10 21:43] dch: noe: not futon2, erica - [2012/10/10 21:43] noe: after 1.3 we'll switch to timed releases anyway - [2012/10/10 21:43] dch: (ie couchapp erlang tool) - [2012/10/10 21:43] dch: ok, lets move on - [2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: also just arrived sorry - [2012/10/10 21:43] noe: dch: eckoit says we'll need erica for futon2... in 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:43] jan____: I would refrain from pinning features to releases. - [2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: +1 - [2012/10/10 21:43] dch: jan____: good reminder - [2012/10/10 21:44] noe: jan____: with a release cadence, _1 - [2012/10/10 21:44] wendall911: +1 - [2012/10/10 21:44] noe: ... erm +1 - [2012/10/10 21:44] benoitc: it can wait the next release imo - [2012/10/10 21:44] dch: ready to move on to next topic? - [2012/10/10 21:44] noe: right no biggy - [2012/10/10 21:44] noe: yep, DOIT - [2012/10/10 21:44] noe: (15 minutes left on the clock, for 1hr meeting, if we're time boxing) - [2012/10/10 21:44] dch: #action noe to send out release cadence as discussed in Eire with rnewson - [2012/10/10 21:44] noe: wait what? - [2012/10/10 21:44] dch: skips jan's horse - [2012/10/10 21:44] noe: ive done that already - [2012/10/10 21:45] dch: noe: OK, great. I will look that up & include a link - [2012/10/10 21:45] noe: what i really need is someone who can help me with git, and actually instituting changes post 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:45] dch: noe: happy to do that, I'm all gitted up now - [2012/10/10 21:45] jan____: noe: happy to git-guide - [2012/10/10 21:45] tilgovi: i'm feeling gitty - [2012/10/10 21:45] dch: getting gitty wid it - [2012/10/10 21:45] noe: rnewson and davisp would be ideal for that, but anyone can help if they dont mind picking up some of the release process stuff at the same time - [2012/10/10 21:45] mainerror: Same here. Just shout if you need help. - [2012/10/10 21:45] Wohali: ch stole my joke - [2012/10/10 21:45] Wohali: dch* - [2012/10/10 21:45] noe: okay seems like i have plenty of volunteers - [2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: noe: as a recent git convert I'm willing to help out at some point as well - [2012/10/10 21:46] noe: again, this should be the first thing we do post 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:46] dch: #action: dch to include link to release cadence - [2012/10/10 21:46] johntiger: is this right time to say it would be good to get release road map somewhere on web ? - [2012/10/10 21:46] noe: release cadence also includes our new Merge Policy - [2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: also, anyone been working on the deb situation? - [2012/10/10 21:46] noe: there is a wiki page on this that has not been properly fleshed out - [2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: tilgovi: noe promised to start a packaging ml - [2012/10/10 21:46] dch: johntiger: yup, I think it will take us a bit to get organised - [2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: does that deserve an #action? - [2012/10/10 21:46] noe: tilgovi: can we keep to the topics pls! - [2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: tilgovi: the debian package maintainer agreed to support us "promptly" - [2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: :-[ sorry. - [2012/10/10 21:46] noe: dch: can yo update the topic? - [2012/10/10 21:46]dch changed the topic tomeeting - cors - [2012/10/10 21:46] dch: CORS - [2012/10/10 21:47] noe: #topic cors - [2012/10/10 21:47] dch: CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS - [2012/10/10 21:47] benoitc: slaps dch - [2012/10/10 21:47] tilgovi: (is sthere an agenda?) - [2012/10/10 21:47] benoitc: so tomorrow :) - [2012/10/10 21:47] dch: tilgovi: yes, so topics, futon2, doc versions, couchapp format, horse, cors, meeting time/day, 1.3.0 prios, bundle erica, test suite, pouch into futon, merge all the forks - [2012/10/10 21:47] noe: tilgovi: yep, we have a list of topics we're going through - [2012/10/10 21:47] noe: benoitc: anything to update us on for cors? - [2012/10/10 21:47] tilgovi: got it - [2012/10/10 21:48] dch: benoitc: I got lost in teh erlangs with this, can we help out in some way? [docs, tests, ...] - [2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: i will branch the code tomorrow - [2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: need to extract from my own code - [2012/10/10 21:48] noe: #info benoitc will branch the cors code tomorrow - [2012/10/10 21:48] dch: tests seem problematic, I can't see how we are going to do that within the current test suite. - [2012/10/10 21:48] noe: benoitc: do you need any help? - [2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: so far it includes tests - [2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: nope - [2012/10/10 21:48] noe: k - [2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: just some coffee - [2012/10/10 21:48] noe: hehe - [2012/10/10 21:48] noe: do we need to discuss the tests or can we move on? - [2012/10/10 21:49]dch changed the topic tomeeting - meeting time/day - [2012/10/10 21:49] benoitc: dch: tests are written in erlang ,i'm faking the request - [2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #topic meeting time/day - [2012/10/10 21:49] noe: i like wednesdays - [2012/10/10 21:49] benoitc: just like fthe vhost module - [2012/10/10 21:49] dch: benoitc: purrrfect - [2012/10/10 21:49] tilgovi: right now seems to be working pretty well? - [2012/10/10 21:49] noe: and this time works for me - [2012/10/10 21:49] Wohali: in the future I can do this time as well - [2012/10/10 21:49] noe: we are notibly missing two pmc members. rnewson (on holiday) and davisp - [2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #action dch to humbly apologise in minutes for jumping the gun, and see if we have any people in asia timezone who are left out - [2012/10/10 21:49] tilgovi: JasonSmith - [2012/10/10 21:50] tilgovi: ? - [2012/10/10 21:50] dch: option is to vary the slot once a month to spread that out - [2012/10/10 21:50] kocolosk: this is normally a good time for davisp, and workable for rnewson as well - [2012/10/10 21:50] noe: kocolosk: thanks - [2012/10/10 21:50] benoitc: next month i will be on asia time though - [2012/10/10 21:50] noe: not sure what to do about JasonSmith - [2012/10/10 21:50] mainerror: Personally I'd prefer one our later but I can try to make this time too. - [2012/10/10 21:50] noe: really though, the minutes we post should be enough for him to participate - [2012/10/10 21:50] dch: #info general consensus from those who made it that this time works for them (!) - [2012/10/10 21:50] noe: that is *the whole point* of them - [2012/10/10 21:50] noe: and why decisions cannot be taken here - [2012/10/10 21:51] tilgovi: dch: who's surprised, really. - [2012/10/10 21:51] jan____: benoitc: is your latest CORS code based on the work dale and I did around CouchHack Vienna or something else? - [2012/10/10 21:51] dch: those people should move to europe - [2012/10/10 21:51] kocolosk: dch: "everyone who isn't here raise your hand" - [2012/10/10 21:51] kocolosk: ;) - [2012/10/10 21:51] dch: moving along... - [2012/10/10 21:51] noe: kocolosk: heh - [2012/10/10 21:51] benoitc: jan____: dale based it on mine, i took some of its change - [2012/10/10 21:51]dch changed the topic tomeeting - 1.3.0 prios - [2012/10/10 21:51] benoitc: main change though is that it is acting like a middle ware - [2012/10/10 21:51] noe: # 1.3.0 prios - [2012/10/10 21:51] noe: #topic 1.3.0 prios - [2012/10/10 21:51] jan____: benoitc: cool, thx - [2012/10/10 21:51] dch: #topic 1.3.0 prios - [2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: so it wrap the request object like vhost instead of passing values in the air - [2012/10/10 21:52] noe: CORS, docs, what else? - [2012/10/10 21:52] dch: I think that's it. - [2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: what is the status of the macosx bin for 1.3 ? - [2012/10/10 21:52] dch: the nasty view server bug is fixed stefankoegl at least hasn't had issues IIRC - [2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: the one with the ui dl on the website - [2012/10/10 21:52] tilgovi: CORS, docs, packaging - [2012/10/10 21:52] noe: tilgovi: packaging? - [2012/10/10 21:53] dch: benoitc: it builds fine via homebrew I don't expect we'll have issues. - [2012/10/10 21:53] benoitc: ok - [2012/10/10 21:53] tilgovi: we've talked about it a lot. isn't that related to the macosx bin question? - [2012/10/10 21:53] noe: i think we should go through JIRA and mark tickets that block 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:53] noe: i can then create a filter and share it with the list so we can burn through them - [2012/10/10 21:53] noe: who wants to lead that effort? - [2012/10/10 21:53] dch: wendall911: would you be willing to lead the packaging tests? in particular we have ubuntu 12.04 ready to bit us - [2012/10/10 21:53] dch: noe: on jira cleanup, I'll do it. - [2012/10/10 21:54] dch: probably tomorrow, now that my restore is (largely) complete - [2012/10/10 21:54] wendall911: dch: I'd love to - [2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action dch will go through JIRA and mark items that block 1.3 release - [2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: noe: For the minutes, http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/FrontPage#Getting_Involved ... http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/IRC_Meeting_Minutes - [2012/10/10 21:54] kocolosk: i thought rnewson took a stab at that already, too - [2012/10/10 21:54] dch: ooooh - [2012/10/10 21:54] Wohali: dch: I recently got our bigcouch built and working on ubuntu 12.04, I can lend wendall911 a hand if desired - [2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action nslater will assist dch with JIRA efforts - [2012/10/10 21:54] noe: mainerror: ? - [2012/10/10 21:54] dch: #action wendall911 and Wohali to get stuck into packaging - [2012/10/10 21:54] dch: ok? - [2012/10/10 21:54] Wohali: fine - [2012/10/10 21:54] dch: 1.3.0 blockers I have a biggier. - [2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: Prepared a wiki link for it. - [2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: Several people have voiced interest in this. Would be nice to have a discussion tomorrowish about packaging with those interested. - [2012/10/10 21:55] noe: #action nslater to announce 1.3 blockers JIRA workflow, and invite contribution to final feature list - [2012/10/10 21:55] benoitc: how do you define packaging exactly? - [2012/10/10 21:55] noe: mainerror: kthx - [2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: heh - [2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: benoitc: distro packages - [2012/10/10 21:55] benoitc: k - [2012/10/10 21:55] dch: yeees. perhaps somebody with more experience will overlook my handwavey statements - [2012/10/10 21:55] noe: do we need packaging@couchdb.a.o? - [2012/10/10 21:56] dch: e.g. I would love to dump my glazier build scripts and have it work in couch core. But I'll need rebar & 1.3. for that. - [2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: hum i think it's fine to have it on dev@ - [2012/10/10 21:56] dch: for me COUCHDB-1346 is a blocker. - [2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: dch: so i have quite finish the apache-couchdb-sdk - [2012/10/10 21:56] dch: .o jira COUCHDB-1346 - [2012/10/10 21:56] noe: Wohali: perhaps prefix emails with [PKG] for the time being - [2012/10/10 21:56] phenny: Failed to find ticket: 'COUCHDB-DEV-COUCHDB-1346' - [2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: for unixes - [2012/10/10 21:56] kocolosk: d'oh - [2012/10/10 21:56] dch: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1346 - [2012/10/10 21:56] jan____: PHENNY - [2012/10/10 21:57] noe: .title - [2012/10/10 21:57] dch: .o jira 1346 - [2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: noe: [#COUCHDB-1346] CouchDB hangs during start of view indexing - ASF JIRA - [2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: Failed to find ticket: 'COUCHDB-DEV-1346' - [2012/10/10 21:57] dch: anyways. - [2012/10/10 21:57] noe: dch: mark it as blocking 1.3 - [2012/10/10 21:57] benoitc: oh - [2012/10/10 21:57] Wohali: noe: Wilco - [2012/10/10 21:57] noe: Wohali: ? - [2012/10/10 21:57] dch: TL;DR windows needs a lazy delete to handle open views. I know *what* needs to happen but can't make it work. - [2012/10/10 21:57] tilgovi: I have a couple blockers - [2012/10/10 21:57] dch: not important right now. - [2012/10/10 21:57] noe: tilgovi: mark them in JIRA - [2012/10/10 21:57] dch: tilgovi: spit it out man! - [2012/10/10 21:58] noe: tilgovi: target versions field - [2012/10/10 21:58] mainerror: noe: Wilco - Will comply. :) - [2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: no need to discuss these now - [2012/10/10 21:58] tilgovi: they are - [2012/10/10 21:58] tilgovi: they are! - [2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: we need to just clean up jira and use that as our tool for deciding what is in and out - [2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: "target versions" should be set to 1.3 or something post-1.3, depending - [2012/10/10 21:58] dch: we had topic "bundle erica" but I think consensus was to bump that post 1.3. next is: test suite, - [2012/10/10 21:59] noe: i think so too - [2012/10/10 21:59]dch changed the topic tomeeting - test suite - [2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite, - [2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite, - [2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite - [2012/10/10 21:59] tilgovi: what about this one? https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1485 - [2012/10/10 22:00] dch: so: 2 things: pouchdb & others (eckoit), and eunit changes (benoitc/dch) - [2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: dch: unit / integration / regression / system, all of the above? - [2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: ah - [2012/10/10 22:00] dch: kocolosk: we can discuss all of that if reqd, I gues - [2012/10/10 22:00] benoitc: i would go for common tests & eunit though - [2012/10/10 22:00] jan____: tilgovi: sounds like the change was intended by you? - [2012/10/10 22:00] dch: tilgovi: up to you, mark it as blocking if reqd - [2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: i'm intrigued by common test after reading http://learnyousomeerlang.com/common-test-for-uncommon-tests - [2012/10/10 22:01] tilgovi: Okay. I'll take a look at it. My only other one is marked for 1.3. I'll take care of it. - [2012/10/10 22:01] noe: tilgovi: mark the fix version as 1.3 if you think it's blocking, and add a comment - [2012/10/10 22:01] eckoit: I just wanted to say that I had some success with a good test suite for pouchdb and would replicate that for futon2 running the browser based tests - [2012/10/10 22:01] noe: we are officially into over-time (based on 1hr meeting length) - [2012/10/10 22:01] wendall911: One issue that came up quite a bit in the 1.2 release was tests that can randomly fail for various reasons. Would be nice to side step that regardless the solution. - [2012/10/10 22:02] noe: lets try to keep this snappy people, we all have real lives to attend to :) - [2012/10/10 22:02] dch: #info try to keep this short in future - [2012/10/10 22:02] benoitc: kocolosk: looks useful in our case - [2012/10/10 22:02] bitdiddle: kocolosk: +1 on CT, just finished that article also - [2012/10/10 22:02] dch: so one of you happy to send a note to ML on options vs erlang tests then? - [2012/10/10 22:03] dch: I would guess what you have sidestream in refuge/bigcouch/cloudant is significant. - [2012/10/10 22:03] kocolosk: enh, not that significant on our side - [2012/10/10 22:03] dch: eckoit: we'll come back to you shgortly. - [2012/10/10 22:03] kocolosk: bit of eunit, bit of proper, nothing too substantial - [2012/10/10 22:04] kocolosk: i'd only say so far that i'm intrigued by CT -- I'm not ready to propose that we dive headfirst into it for system tests and discard all of the JS - [2012/10/10 22:04] dch: how about #info kocolosk and benoitc to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the ball rolling? I see this as a 1.3+ - [2012/10/10 22:04] kocolosk: can do on that - [2012/10/10 22:04] dch: kocolosk: I think we'll always need JS (or node flavoured) tests, even for pouch / browser compatibility. Having the option is important. - [2012/10/10 22:05] dch: let's move on then - [2012/10/10 22:05] kocolosk: yep - [2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you gonna #action that? - [2012/10/10 22:05] benoitc: not sure i will have time until the end of the months for tests - [2012/10/10 22:05]dch changed the topic tomeeting - pouch into futon - [2012/10/10 22:05] benoitc: for now working on extracting rcouch patches - [2012/10/10 22:05] dch: benoitc: not a problem then. Adam can start, let it settle for a bit. - [2012/10/10 22:05] dch: #topic pouch into futon - [2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you going to action the test stuff dch? - [2012/10/10 22:05] mainerror: Don't we need Dale for this? - [2012/10/10 22:06] wendall911: I'll be dealing with the tests for packaging requirements. I could help test the tests. - [2012/10/10 22:06] noe: mainerror: quite maybe - [2012/10/10 22:06] dch: #action kocolosk to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the discussion - [2012/10/10 22:06] dch: meta-test - [2012/10/10 22:06] noe: #info wendall911 has offered to help with the tests - [2012/10/10 22:06] dch: so I don't recall who proposed this, eckoit? you have the floor - [2012/10/10 22:06] noe: we should punt pouch until dale can join us - [2012/10/10 22:06] dch: +! - [2012/10/10 22:06] noe: no? - [2012/10/10 22:06] dch: +1 - [2012/10/10 22:07] mainerror: +1 - [2012/10/10 22:07] dch: more importantly this is a point about "what is couch" - [2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: I did not propose, but would be happy to add to futon2 :) - [2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: but actually +0 on the reason - [2012/10/10 22:07] noe: dch: it is? how so? - [2012/10/10 22:07] dch: in interests of time, I suggest we leave this for "NEXT TIME" then - [2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: fine with me - [2012/10/10 22:07] noe: okay - [2012/10/10 22:08] dch: noe: well today we provide an erlang-based platform that runs JSON docs etc etc etc. - [2012/10/10 22:08] noe: #info pouch in futon discussion tabled until dale can join us - [2012/10/10 22:08] noe: dch: okay - [2012/10/10 22:08] dch: How ready are we (as a project, and as a community) to provide an apache-quality browser equivalent? - [2012/10/10 22:08] dch: #rhetorical - [2012/10/10 22:08] noe: okay - [2012/10/10 22:09]dch changed the topic tomeeting - merge all the forks - [2012/10/10 22:09] dch: sweet, last topic, hopefully short. - [2012/10/10 22:09] dch: #topic merge all the forks - [2012/10/10 22:09] kocolosk: :) - [2012/10/10 22:09] noe: we need davisp and rnewson for this really - [2012/10/10 22:09] benoitc: hard one - [2012/10/10 22:09] jan____: +1 - [2012/10/10 22:09] dch: TL;DR my impression as an erlang lightweight, is that there are only a handful (4) people who (a) can do this, and (b) know the background. - [2012/10/10 22:09] kocolosk: i believe rnewson feels a bit blocked until we make some decisions about source code layout and build system - [2012/10/10 22:09] dch: so: this is definitely a post 1.3 thing - [2012/10/10 22:10] kocolosk: absolutely - [2012/10/10 22:10] dch: but I would suggest 3 actions: - [2012/10/10 22:10] benoitc: also i would like to know the status of the otp thing I summarized - [2012/10/10 22:10] ASFBot: JIRA: Randall Leeds resolved COUCHDB-1155 - Etag send by list function does not depend on userCtx as 'Duplicate' [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1155 ] - [2012/10/10 22:10] wendall911: +1 on OTP discussion - [2012/10/10 22:10] benoitc: i personnaly ready to start the work on that once we settle on a design - [2012/10/10 22:10] dch: 1 - cloudant to clarify how this relates to bigcouch & their product. No saga but just a bit of pixie dust, how do you see this working. - [2012/10/10 22:10] noe: benoitc: not had time to look at it. trying to focus my efforts on docs - [2012/10/10 22:11] dch: 2 - a general request to do as much of this in the open as possible. I realise that makes it a lot more work, but there will rarely be such an interesting and complex merge. - [2012/10/10 22:11] dch: this is a *huge* opportunity to get some of those rarely discussed "why does couchdb do this in that way" discussions on the table. - [2012/10/10 22:12] pstoll|away is now known aspstoll - [2012/10/10 22:12] dch: 3 - how can we help? open ended discussion for sure. - [2012/10/10 22:12] mainerror: I don't get 3 - [2012/10/10 22:12] dch: benoitc: re (2) it would be great if you can give that some though vs refuge, but there's no rush to answer it - [2012/10/10 22:12] kocolosk: dch: no qualms about 2) from our end - [2012/10/10 22:13] jan____: ALRIGHT, all caught up on dev@ and commits@. declared bankrupcy on jira & users@. I’m officially back! - [2012/10/10 22:13] kocolosk: very little still needs to be open-sourced - [2012/10/10 22:13] noe: jan____: haha - [2012/10/10 22:13] kocolosk: and the stuff that is open-sourced tends not to have a private fork anywhere - [2012/10/10 22:13] noe: it seems clear to me that this not only needs to be punted until post 1.3 - [2012/10/10 22:13] benoitc: dch: tje android thing in refuge is missing - [2012/10/10 22:13] dch: mainerror: if we have say 5 people (benoit, adam, bob x2, paul, etc) who can actually do the work, how can we helpthem? - [2012/10/10 22:13] noe: ... it needs to be punted until after we've reached consensus about our new build - [2012/10/10 22:13] benoitc: soon it will be the same for ios but ... - [2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: noe: "consensus about our new build" - [2012/10/10 22:14] mainerror: dch got it thanks. :) - [2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: meaning self-contained erlang and whatnot? - [2012/10/10 22:14] noe: kocolosk: ? - [2012/10/10 22:14] benoitc: noe: np - [2012/10/10 22:14] benoitc: kocolosk: I think we need - [2012/10/10 22:14] noe: kocolosk: yes. our plans for the build system. the otp stuff benoitc posted about and rnewson feels blocked on - [2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: noe: ok, agreed - [2012/10/10 22:14] noe: we need to ratify this asap after 1.3 and just get cracking - [2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info bigcouch merge dependant on community consensus around build system - [2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: oh also i hav this _db_updates : https://github.com/refuge/couch_dbupdates - [2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info build system discussion to be brought to a close asap after 1.3 - [2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: do you think it should land pre-1.3 ? - [2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: err - [2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: post - [2012/10/10 22:16] noe: clarify "it"? - [2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: the code inside - [2012/10/10 22:16] kocolosk: dch: in re 1), couchdb and bigcouch are critical elements of our technology stack, but we're not in the business of supporting them directly, nor are we in the business of licensing closed-source forks - [2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: hmm? - [2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: noe: this is a long time asked feature - [2012/10/10 22:16] dch: kocolosk: Adam for sure, I think personally I know exactly where you are coming from. But it might be useful to spell it out. - [2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: can't rememebr the jira ticket - [2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: what is? - [2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: but it is really old - [2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: i dunno what you're talking about - [2012/10/10 22:17] tilgovi: benoitc: I would review it. There's been a ticket for a long time, I think. - [2012/10/10 22:17] benoitc: noe: allowing you to get db events on http level - [2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: _db_updates? - [2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: i would find the ticket, update the "fix version" to 1.3 and post a rationale in the comments - [2012/10/10 22:17] jan____: benoitc: +1 on committing whenever. I want that feature bad - [2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: dch will be clearing out jira so that we can use this to track what's in and out for the next release - [2012/10/10 22:17] benoitc: noe: an handler to get all db events on HTTP replacing the old api only accessible on via stdin/stdout - [2012/10/10 22:18] noe: benoitc: yeah, im basically saying just go for it if you think so - [2012/10/10 22:18] noe: benoitc: like jan____ is :) - [2012/10/10 22:18] benoitc: ok for the ticket - [2012/10/10 22:18] dch: re build system, I don't think any committer has said NAY to OTP + rebar. - [2012/10/10 22:18] noe: nope - [2012/10/10 22:18] dch: and finding a way to wrap autotools into that - [2012/10/10 22:18] noe: i am sure we can figure it out - [2012/10/10 22:18] jan____: ack - [2012/10/10 22:18] kocolosk: that'd be great -- are our distro experts ok with it? - [2012/10/10 22:19] noe: that'd be me? and...? - [2012/10/10 22:19] dch: #info refer to https://github.com/seth/rebar-tools for dependency locking - [2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: it = bundling erlang instead of relying on the erlang debian package, for example - [2012/10/10 22:19] noe: ah. well, debian would not ship it like that for sure - [2012/10/10 22:19] wendall911: If build system doesn't get redone for 1.3. There is a bunch of cleanup that should happen. A lot of 0.9 era cruft still there. Was cleaned up considerably, but could use some attention. - [2012/10/10 22:19] tilgovi: we can find a way not to do that - [2012/10/10 22:19] noe: so i am not sure what downtream packages would do - [2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: noe: yeah, that's where i was headed - [2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: tilgovi: not to do what? - [2012/10/10 22:19] mainerror: Sorry for cross posting but is the Wiki down? - [2012/10/10 22:19] noe: wendall911: do you want to take point on that? - [2012/10/10 22:19] tilgovi: not to ship the bundled erlang - [2012/10/10 22:19] jan____: wendall911: do we have a summary or list of stuff that needs work? - [2012/10/10 22:19] noe: mainerror: ask in #asfinfra - [2012/10/10 22:20] tilgovi: in a downstream package - [2012/10/10 22:20] benoitc: it is possible to use release with deb packaging system though - [2012/10/10 22:20] Wohali: distros won't want a bundled erlang, but a good packaging setup will support including it or not including it - [2012/10/10 22:20] wendall911: jan____: no, but I'll come up with a list from memory. I'm sure you remember a couple things that came up. - [2012/10/10 22:20] noe: yeah, packagers would have to figure out how to disentangle it - [2012/10/10 22:20] jan____: mainerror: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wiki.apache.org - [2012/10/10 22:20] tilgovi: What Wohali said - [2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: oof - [2012/10/10 22:20] wendall911: noe: yeah, I'd be cool with cleaning that up a bit. - [2012/10/10 22:20] noe: Wohali: ++! - [2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: ok - [2012/10/10 22:20] Wohali: debian packaging, sure. in debian's repos, not necessairly - [2012/10/10 22:20] noe: Wohali: +1 - [2012/10/10 22:20] jan____: wendall911: awesome, put em in a mail or jira? - [2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: sounds like a load of fun - [2012/10/10 22:20] dch: let's not get too off track here. - [2012/10/10 22:21] Wohali: again i'm already signed up for packaging with wendall911, we can take that offline - [2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: jan____: since it's from memory, I think -dev list to get feedback then JIRA - [2012/10/10 22:21] noe: wendall911: are you talking about build cruft? - [2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: noe: yes - [2012/10/10 22:21] benoitc: you don't need to bundle erlang in a release : https://github.com/refuge/rcouch/tree/master/package/deb - [2012/10/10 22:21] dch: packaging & bundling erlang: my personal experience (& that of basho and IIRC cloudant) is we need to do it. The distro/packaging view might disagree. - [2012/10/10 22:21] jan____: wendall911: jira is copied to dev@ :D - [2012/10/10 22:21] tilgovi: is this still on topic? - [2012/10/10 22:21] mainerror: Thanks jan____ - [2012/10/10 22:21] dch: tilgovi: no :-) - [2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: jan____: ah, good point. Will start there. - [2012/10/10 22:21] jan____: wendall911: either way though - [2012/10/10 22:21] noe: #action wendall911 to take point on cleaning up build 0.9 cruft - [2012/10/10 22:21] dch: re merging forks, are we done? did we get any actions from that? - [2012/10/10 22:22] noe: #action Wohali to help wendall911 with build system work - [2012/10/10 22:22] Wohali: dch: Yup we're all in line here - [2012/10/10 22:22] noe: dch a few - [2012/10/10 22:22] noe: i think we're done folks. - [2012/10/10 22:22] noe: AOB? - [2012/10/10 22:22] dch: #action kocolosk to provide woolly update on how cloudant and bigcouch and couchdb fit together in the NEW WORLD ORDER - [2012/10/10 22:22] dch: yup - [2012/10/10 22:22] kocolosk: hah - [2012/10/10 22:22] noe: aob? - [2012/10/10 22:22] dch: I have 1 - [2012/10/10 22:23] noe: shoot - [2012/10/10 22:23] dch: I am setting up a Learn to Hack on CouchDB / Erlang email list following in Wohali's footsteps, and based on my own shameless need to do better erlangs. - [2012/10/10 22:23] dch: I think a separate list would make sense. - [2012/10/10 22:23] dch: doing that on dev@ is going to be spammy - [2012/10/10 22:23] noe: erlang@couchdb.a.o? - [2012/10/10 22:24] dch: noe: that would be cool, maybe hack@ to avoid confusion with "how do I use couch" - [2012/10/10 22:24] dch: no idea how to set it up - [2012/10/10 22:24] noe: i can get it set up - [2012/10/10 22:24] dch: sweet - [2012/10/10 22:24] noe: if we agree its a good idea - [2012/10/10 22:24] dch: I agree - [2012/10/10 22:24] Wohali: i'll support it - [2012/10/10 22:24] noe: how about learn@couchdb or bootstrap@couchdb? - [2012/10/10 22:24] mainerror: +1 - [2012/10/10 22:25] dch: bootstrap implies I'm running a startup - [2012/10/10 22:25] mainerror: +1 on hack@ - [2012/10/10 22:25] noe: hehe, only if you have that experience - [2012/10/10 22:25] noe: i dont like hack - [2012/10/10 22:25] dch: notes the wine bottle is almost empty, as is our meeting timelimit - [2012/10/10 22:25] chewbranca: I'm interested in it as well, whatever the name - [2012/10/10 22:25] noe: lets not bikeshed tthe name - [2012/10/10 22:25] kocolosk: heh - [2012/10/10 22:25] benoitc: hum we shouldn'tn't have too much channels - [2012/10/10 22:25] noe: #action noe to set up a LYSE mailing list - [2012/10/10 22:25] wendall911: agrees with benoitc - [2012/10/10 22:25] dch: benoitc: agreed. - [2012/10/10 22:26] jan____: ho...@couchdb.apache.org - [2012/10/10 22:26] noe: benoitc: if it fails it fails and we shut the list down - [2012/10/10 22:26] dch: ok any other bikeshed items? - [2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: Definitely horse@ - [2012/10/10 22:26] noe: why horse pls? - [2012/10/10 22:26] dch: horse@yourhairybutt - [2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: :D - [2012/10/10 22:26] benoitc: right - [2012/10/10 22:26] noe: AOB? - [2012/10/10 22:26] dch: we are done - [2012/10/10 22:26] benoitc: i start to like this jira bit - [2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: \o/ - [2012/10/10 22:26] dch: hey everybody many thanks - [2012/10/10 22:26] noe: (any other business) - [2012/10/10 22:27] benoitc: bot - [2012/10/10 22:27] dch: this has been fun. - [2012/10/10 22:27] kocolosk: cheers, thanks for setting this up - [2012/10/10 22:27] noe: yep! cya all next weeeek - [2012/10/10 22:27] noe: #endmeeting - [2012/10/10 22:27] wendall911: Wohali: email or PM me about a future meeting time. I'm spent for today, but free tomorrow or friday. - [2012/10/10 22:27] dch: I'd like to thank my bot Noah Slater. We were sure he was a script, now its confirmed - }}} -
