On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:38:50 -0500 "Kevin Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> Having fussed myself about the change from QWERTY to T9, what raster > is planning solves the issue. I actually prefer non-qwerty as long as > there's some kind of predictive input that reduced the number of key > presses. > > I'm quite excited to see what comes of this. Any idea where on this > list of things to do this falls? next month :) > On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 4:14 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:53:34 -0300 "Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > > > > i intend to first give a predictive qwerty keyboard a go - why? well > > qwerty is familiar and requires only 1 press per letter. it seems the > > qtopia predictive kbd works pretty well on the gta01 and gta02 - so now > > it's a cvhance to improve on it wiht configurable layout, keys etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:43 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri ha scritto: > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> I'm really excited waiting for the Freerunner to be available to > > > > >> the public, so I'm looking around searching the resources I'll > > > > >> need more. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think that one of the most important thing when it comes to the > > > > >> daily phone use, is the virtual input device that imho it should be > > > > >> completely usable with *fingers* (the stilus isn't portable!) > > > > >> giving the users the same confort that the key-based devices give. > > > > >> > > > > >> To get the best usability and speed while writing I do think that > > > > >> is needed a QWERTY style keyboard (If you've ever tried a > > > > >> blackberry you'd know what I mean). > > > > >> Actually there are two alternatives: the QTopia predictive > > > > >> keyboard [1] that works quite well if used with a good dictionary > > > > >> (also if it should be improved for writing new words), and the > > > > >> iphone-like virtual keyboard [2] that is already available for > > > > >> N800 and that should be easily portable to Openmoko too. > > > > >> > > > > >> Any other? If there are some others I don't know them, but the > > > > >> solutions I've tried using the Openmoko GUI with qemu aren't so > > > > >> good imho. I think that some virtual qwerty keyboards should be > > > > >> developed also considering that Openmoko supports the landscape > > > > >> view (not using accelerometers yet, but it does it!) and that mode > > > > >> could/should be used for writing, so we could use more space to > > > > >> put keys in! > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marco, > > > > > > > > Hi Gustavo! > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree on this, QWERTY keyboard is a no-go for OpenMoko. I'm > > > > > using iPhone for about 2 months and I wrote the one you cited, so I > > > > > think I have some knowledge about it :-) > > > > > > > > > > Reasons: > > > > > - iPhone vkbd is not so great, even on iPhone hardware. The > > > > > landscape version is almost usable, but the vertical is bad - but > > > > > acceptable, see below. > > > > > > > > Well, I've tried the iPhone virtual keybard (not only on the iPhone > > > > but also in the iPod touch, that it's the same) and it's not so bad > > > > imho... Of course the vertical view is really better than the > > > > landscape one but considering how I use the T9 based phones, I'm > > > > really a much faster > > > > > > I guess you mean the other way around, using keyboard in landscape > > > mode (like iPhone browser) > > > > > > > > > > writer using this kind of keyboard, also if sometimes I do mistakes. > > > > That's why I think that the pressure should be compared char-by-char > > > > with a dictionary! > > > > > > > > > - iPhone has no sunken screen, with borders that make you loose > > > > > many physical space. This happens on Maemo devices as N800 and it's > > > > > painful in Canola and that vkbd mockup I wrote. I do not have a > > > > > OpenMoko hardware yet, but I suspect it will be even worse, as the > > > > > screen is more high dpi and smaller in physical size. > > > > > > > > Yes, that's could be true, but in landscape view I think it could be > > > > usable in Freerunner too... > > > > > > I dare to say it's not even without trying. Our experience with Canola > > > is that you waste more than 30px in each edge due the border, in > > > OpenMoko it should be even more. Given that each click area must be > > > around 100x100 to have good hit rate, then you guess you'd not have > > > much space to fit around 10 keys on 1 row. > > > > > > > > > > > - iPhone has a capacitive (not pressure based), VERY sensitive > > > > > touch screen. > > > > > - Running my prototype on N800 was not so bad because the screen > > > > > is huge and you have plenty of space, but you often miss some > > > > > clicks due the pressure based touch screen. > > > > > > > > I don't know how it is in Freerunner, but there's no software control > > > > on it? > > > > > > it's a physical limitation: the screen need pressure to emit hardware > > > signals, while the capacitive just needs contact, you barely need to > > > touch in order to produce hardware signals. > > > > > > > > > > > That's why I think it's not a good option. We better keep with some > > > > > kind variation of T9. I already talked to rasterman about that and > > > > > he have a great idea of a key matrix (3x3 or 4x3) that would behave > > > > > like number keypad, but the labels would weight the key with > > > > > greatest probability of being used (based on dicts, T9 like). > > > > > > > > As I've said, I don't love T9 neither 9x9 keyboards as they're > > > > commonly meant (the ones used for years by key-based phones) maybe Lars > > > > Hallberg keyboards [1] are a little more usable... > > > > > > I think it's not much diferent from T9, just a implementation that > > > utilizes software capabilities better. > > > > > > > > > > > The major problem with T9 is it takes time to train and have it > > > > > behave fine for you. One option would be to provide a service (pc, > > > > > web or on the device itself) to feed with personal texts (mails, > > > > > docs, ... text you wrote) so it will optimize for it. Other > > > > > improvements could be abbreviations and maybe mode selection to use > > > > > even more optimized dicts (language based and terms based, like > > > > > "polite", "3733t speech", "development"...). > > > > > > > > This is a good idea... > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we need to do is implement something fast, with good feedback > > > > > and users will get used... people already got used to write > > > > > "graffiti", T9, ... and even QWERTY... they will learn yet another, > > > > > just make the behavior predictable and help the user whenever > > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > Of course, but the one I feel better with (and with I'm more > > > > productive) is the QWERTY way :P, maybe because I'm using it for too > > > > many years! :P > > > > > > yeah, mee too, but physical space is an important issue we have to deal > > > with :-/ > > > > > > -- > > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > > > http://profusion.mobi - Embedded and Mobile Software Development > > > -------------------------------------- > > > MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Skype: gsbarbieri > > > Mobile: +55 (81) 9927 0010 > > > > > > -- > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _______________________________________________ OpenMoko community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
