Robert Taylor wrote:
 > I'm not dropping this. You still have it wrong.

Hi Robert,

I'm not trying to win the overall argument, I just want you to 
acknowledge that my position is as valid as your own, as I do for your 
position in point #2 below.

Here's my thinking, please feel free to agree or disagree and explain why.

#1: Based on Steve's recent Emails talking about production time lines, 
I'd wager that the Freerunner will hit the market within a week or two 
of the 3G iPhone. There have been discussions over and over about how 
the Freerunner is not going to be marketed as an iPhone "killer", but 
the fact it'll be released around the same time may create that sort of 
thinking again, which as Robert states in another Email, we'll have to 
clarify for the "f___ing noobs".

#2: A quote from your last Email:
 > If the moko was subsidized out of pocket expense would be less because
 > the moko would be cheaper. It's that simple.
Yes, I agree with you on this, it's that simple, you're absolutely 
correct, and the out-of-pocket expense would be higher to own an iPhone. 
"*IF* the moko was subsidized" -- to use your own words.
So *yes* if were having this discussion next summer when someone 
theorized (was it you yourself) that the Freerunner or some other GTA 
device might be subsidized by a major carrier, then I absolutely 
whole-heartedly agree that getting a Freerunner would be cheaper, in 
terms of up-front cost alone, than buying an iPhone.

#3: Come July 11th, 2008 when the iPhone is released, you *have* to 
agree with me on this: the Freerunner is NOT going to be subsidized by 
any carrier. It will cost you $399 (or $369 in a group sale) to purchase 
a Freerunner from OpenMoko, plus tax/shipping, period. And it will cost 
you $199 for the cheaper iPhone at a store you have to drive to, period.

#4: Jorge's original message had nothing to do with subsidies, it was 
solely based on a face-value perspective of "When the iPhone is released 
in July 2008, how much money comes out of my pocket to buy a Freerunner 
versus iPhone, plus a data/voice plan?", and nothing else. His point was 
that the out-of-pocket cost, in July 2008, would be higher for a 
Freerunner by $200, which is absolutely correct.

#5: Taking #2, #3 and #4 into consideration: if you buy an iPhone or a 
Freerunner in July 2008, over the course of the next 24 months (to 
compare apples to apples of a 2-yr contract versus 2 years of 
non-contract service), you'll spend approximately the same total dollar 
value no matter which phone you purchase.
iPhone: $199 + ($100 x 24mo) = ~$2600
Freerunner: $399 + ($90 x 24mo) = ~$2600

So maybe I'm not going to convince you either (per your comment in the 
other "things clear" message thread) that my perspective is as valid as 
your own. I'm simply trying to get you to acknowledge that when the 
Freerunner is sold in the summer of 2008, around the same time the 
iPhone is being sold, there is *no* subsidy on the Freerunner, therefore 
Jorge's initial question/concern is correct: the iPhone is cheaper to 
purchase up front. My follow-up though was that after two years of 
owning each phone, the total amount of money paid will be approximately 

And Robert, I'm still curious how you determined that in this same 
scenario (buying the phones in July 2008 with no subsidy on the 
Freerunner) that the overall dollar total you spend would be double if 
you choose the iPhone. Third request: please elaborate. :o)


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