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You are totally right.At T-Mobile Germany you can reserve an iPhone 3G. 
You can only get it with an contract thant is far more expensive than 
comparable contracts of T-Mobile Germany. The "cheapest" (24 month-) 
contract Complete S  is 5 € more expensive than a comparable one. With 
this contract the price for the iPhone 3G with 8GB is249€.

So, now let's calculate:
5€ /month * 24 = 120 €
120+249 = 369 € = 574$

And this is not completle correct, cause in germany nearly every phone 
is subsidized. For my new contract without phone you can get between 150 
€ (233$) and 400 € (622$) at resellers. For a small contract like the 
one I used at the top it is around 200 €.

so we are around 569€ (884 $). I think this is everything but cheap.

Of course be careful with this calculation. But for a tendence is can be 
And yet a little hint: the 16GB one will cost 499€ (776$) with contract 
(even with the expensive ones which go up to 90€(140$)/month).

I don't want to calculate the price of the iPhone, i just want to 
explain, that it does NOT cost 299$.

Greetings Bastian

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) schrieb:
| On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:16:40 +0000 "Jorge ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
|> Robert Taylor wrote:
|>> On the new Iphones, you HAVETO get a 2 year contract.  
|>> If you decide to quit you will pay a fee that will total up greater than
|>> the $600 the phone is worth.
|> The first iPhone was released june 29/2007 and the first hacked that 
|> you to use it with any operator was announced on july 9/2007. It will 
|> again and unlocked iPhones 3G will be available, it does not matter 
if the
|> first bunch are stolen, second hand or refurbished, it short time 
|> will be able to buy an iPhone 3G without contract for almost the same 
|> than it contract. Then we will be able to compare unsubsidized 
iphones with
|> moko. until that moment lets end the flame :-) but if I am right the 
|> will be cheaper even unsubsidized. (although i would buy a moko anyway)
| not so simple. i think he business plan is changing because before this
| happened with the 1st iphone. people could buy without contract. it 
was assumed
| that the phone lock would force people to get a contract anyway and 
apple bore
| the risk by losing out on their cut of the carrier's revenue (at&t). 
so they
| sold it at $399 or $499 etc. and din't get any money from at&t after that.
| now it changes with the 3g iphone. you must sign up when you buy. sure 
- you
| can now take that phone, unlock it, re-sell it, but you are stuck with a
| contract you must keep paying for... with no phone to use on that contract
| unless you buy another phone - outright. there will be contract 
| clauses if you want to cancel then and this will help cover the 
subsidy - of
| not completely cover it and then some.
| sure - some (a very few) phones will somehow be smuggled from the 
factory or
| from shipments before they get to an apple or at&t or other carrier 
store, and
| some may be sold "under the counter" without contract - but i 
guarantee that
| that likely is a business losing proposition for anyone as they get a 
| once they sign you on a contract. selling without a contract will mean 
hey have
| to jack up the price to cover the lost rebate money.
| as such - legal, legitimate and easy to get 3g iphones WITHOUT 
contract are
| going to be much more than $199.
|>>> furthermore the freedom, there is a war for the smartphones market 
and a
|>>> freephone have to be competitive  in price, not only in quality and
|>>> philosophy.
|>>>> This is only true if you do what you are insisting on doing, comparing
|>> things that are not of equal value. While it is fine for consumers to
|>> be ignorant of these facts and actually think your argument is valid,
|>> it's not correct on this thread as you are clearly educated and
|>> understand the reality of the situation.
|> not equal value? Moko, iPhone, iRiver, Blackberry... we are talking about
|> smartphones, and money is money. If you buy an orange, and apple or a 
|> you pay with money!! every fruit have advantages and disadvantages, 
but you
|> pay anyway
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