Well, sean announced the mailing list at openexpo. also talked about our long term view. I read through your other comments below. Thanks. On the Proto boards. PCB is just one component of the cost of a EVT board. I know with the Voodoo II I spent at least 1000 per board to get a 2 day turn back in 1998 or so. The difficulty with a cell phone PCB, and the GTA03 in particular, was the small number of houses who could actually build the PCB, laser drilled, the 6410 BGA required a very specialized PCB, cant recall all the details.. hey Im marketing. Plus components for a short run tend to be very expensive. Granted I didnt go over all the costs with a fine tooth comb. (task belongs to engineering) In any case I think with something like Dr. N approach and the one rattling inside my head we could probably get through EVT with a volunteer effort. let me see about the progress on getting the list set up.
Lothar Behrens wrote: > > Am 05.04.2009 um 23:21 schrieb Steve Mosher: > >> Good comments All. >> >> Let me inline some answers/explanations. >> >> > > Snip > >>> >>> My education in 1987 till 1990, was electronics engineering. I do not >>> any more practice in that area. So I stuck in some conflict >>> not to start any electronics projects, because I have the glue the >>> project will be a one man show and keep a hobby project. But >>> if there would be a collerative project I could join, I propably >>> would. And may it only getting more practice in laying out PCB boards >>> whose schematics other developers have created. >> Ok.. here comes a question. What layout tools? are there open source >> layout tools ( one hopes) and if not then what tool do we pick? > > I mentioned KICAD > (http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/DE:Main_Page). > It is capable to handle up to 16 layers, has a basic autorouter engine, > but also could > use an external one I think. > > It is multiplatform (Windows, Linux, Mac OS X and probably others). > There is a 6 layer > PCB board as a sample that is a video grabber. > > As a plus, it could display boards in 3D and supports wings 3D models to > be used for > the parts. > > Also the schematics is organized in scheets and subsheets, so one could > divide a project > in sub projects. The scheets therefore could get connectors to enable > inter scheet connections. > (In my words :-) > > I think the same would be possible if we design PCB components with > prelayouted stuff, but this > is only an idea with the component as is in mind - why should it not > possible to couble a component > with a layout except the interconnection wires. > > To pick up the colerative aspect of PCB design, I could ask the dev > team, if it is possible to add > a color scheme to show the differences in layout to be a helper to spot > differences between versions. > >> >> Essentially, you are pitching the idea I'm going to try to get going. >> I'll make an announcement about it shortly, but my plate is pretty full >> and I can only volunteer a couple hours a day to help organize and >> guide it. >>> >>> If that would be possible, then it would be a real open phone :-) >>> >>> End of arsing around. Is there a potential to create a hardware >>> development comunity? >> I think so. no harm in trying. >>> >>> To avoid that each individual will start its own variant we could >>> using a vote system before any direction is done, say wich formfactor is >>> used, for sample. >> The voting approach will be discussed. Basically I dont believe in >> letting idiots vote. You dont want me voting on your layout and >> convincing everyone with my superb rhetoric that your 8 layer design >> can be accomplished in 2 layers.. you get my drift. The community will >> have to have SME ( subject matter experts) They will have to have some >> undemocratic powers. my view at least. > > My knowledge is a bit away (Eagle, HP UX DS ??), but I know, Ill do > something wrong, if I used 8 layers > but these are 20% filled only each. > > OTOH, some guides could be applied like this: This board is a candidate > for two layers. Don't use more than 4. > > I participated layouting in motor control circuits, backplanes for > computer systems and also > computer systems (the Transputer processor). > > I got more knowledge by often doing a review and do layouts in steps. > First the power and block capacitors then > the group of data signals and then the remaining stuff. > > Critical stuff is HF and that sould be a separate step. Keep versions. > Also an assisting layout would be helpful, like this: > I do one signal I think how it should done, an you do the rest of this > signals (bus). > > That way you avoid the risk, someone forgots the capacity in the signals > and do wire them in paralell, but shouldn't. > Also signal length is an issue, but that is an HF issue. > > About the voting: When one makes his / her first try in layouting, the > core team should not > spend much time on it. A layouter first should get points of trust, thus > other layouter with > some more experience should / could review the work of less experienced > layouters, but not vica versa. > > I think, this funnel also will help in finding good layouters that may > get payd later and is fair. > > I know that a hobby electronics guy will have it harder to get points, > but others with some background > and the willing to help is a help. The hobby electronics guy could learn > from the more experienced. > > Snip > > The cost: > > What I didn't know is the cost for, say, 20 phones. I know there is the > cost for the > equipment and the staff at all, but compare prototype costs with that here: > > http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/PCB-production-service-overview/PCB-proto-the-new-PCB-prototype-service-from-Eurocircuits.html > > > and > http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/Service-overview/Service-Overview.html > > >> >>> >>> Sean: This would propably help continue GTA3 development. The risk to >>> produce it, would only invest some inspections of a new design >>> and doing integration tests. And even this could be donated. >> >> I asked sean the same. We are going to set up a mailing list at >> openmoko.org to get this started. > > We don't let the press in the glue we can't manage this. Beat them :-) > > -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de > Lothar Behrens > Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2 > 73252 Lenningen > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
