-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 For the Conspiracy Theorists out there: Steve and I are discussing this off-list.
For everybody else: This list will now be free of my vitriol while Steve and I talk. Enjoy. Steve Mosher wrote: > Dale Maggee wrote: > Hi Steve, > > I appreciate your replying to this thread. > > I would however point out that I believe that you should have already > been aware of this issue before I raised it in this public mailing list: > I sent three emails to Openmoko asking about getting a refund, and > received no reply to any of them. I've pasted these emails below, after > the "---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD---" Line. You were cc'd in two of these > emails (the ones saying "I've had no reply"). I eventually got a > response from Tony Tu on the trac ticket, at which point I stopped > sending emails to you. > >> Dale, as you can well imagine since I receive mail every single time a >> FR is ordered, >> since I receive mail every time we get a request for a return, since I >> receive mail from >> the community list and the developer list and since I received mail >> from cont...@openmoko >> univers...@openmoko.. oh heck every public mail we have plus I have my >> email on every >> press release, you can well imagine that I might have forgotten your >> name. But I didn't. >> Two people handled the RMAs on product purchased from OM store. And >> with Tony on the >> job I just assumed it would handled. I've been informed that we dont >> have a record a record >> of you purchasing the phone from us. That probably explains why Tony >> could not process >> the return. > As I've indicated, I've already gone through the process of requesting a > refund for the device, and this was declined. I think you should be able > to find all the info you need at > https://support.openmoko.com/trac/ticket/36 > >> Yes. As I stated above we have no record of you purchaing the phone at >> our store: openmoko.com >> If you purchased it elsewhere please let me know. All of the guys here >> who have dealt with me will >> tell you that I'm a fair and reasonable person. > I think that if you want to discuss the refund issue with me, it may be > more appropriate to do so off-list, but I realise that I may have > created a public image issue for you here (given my usage of the words > "thieves" and "defrauded"), and that you may therefore want to keep this > public. If you're willing to work with me to resolve my grievances and > prove my assertions incorrect, then I'd be more than happy to come back > here and retract my previous statements once it's resolved :). That > might be more appropriate, rather than flooding the mailing list with > what will effectively be back-and-forth personal conversations between > you and me. but if you want to discuss it in this public place I have no > problem with that either - up to you. > >> Makes no difference to me. If I handled this privately I'm sure some >> lunatic down the road >> who slam me for taking it private and launch into yact, yet another >> conspiracy theory. >> You put your return request into the RMA process for the Openmoko >> store. For >> that process to work we have to be able to find you in the database. >> So, if you could >> verify that you did in fact purchase the phone from that store ( the sn >> and imei would >> help) Then I can do two things: >> 1. Figure out how the heck the system didnt capture your information >> 2. Process your return. > >> WRT your language. If I took offense, then I'd be a thief. ( that's a >> joke.. took a fence) >> Seriously, I'm no person to lecture people about having a colorful way >> of expressing >> anger. I'll just say that some weapons have more collateral damage then >> others. And >> sometimes you can frag yourself, intentionally or otherwise, if you >> don't get clear of the blast zone. > Since having my application for a refund declined, I had come to kind of > accept that I had "been screwed", and I have since bought another phone. > Since I did that, I've (in my less angry moments) come to see the FR as > a kind-of-cool little open-source device, as long as you don't want to > use it as a phone. I haven't really done anything much with it, because > so far I've been too angry to really even look at it, but I will admit > that it does have potential for something, even if it's not as a > reliable phone. > >> I'll check from my side but did they give you a reason for being declined. > (That's my whole point, by the way: That it's not a usable phone, even > after a year of waiting, and I bought it because I wanted a working open > source phone, and I was told that the FR would meet that requirement). > > I would therefore perhaps be open to accepting a partial refund and > keeping the device as a PDA-sized linux device (The AU Laws allow for > that), even if I never use it. But I think that if this were to happen I > would maybe not feel cheated anymore and could possibly once again > enjoy participating constructively in the community. > >> Let's see what turns up when I get the ID numbers I requested. If you >> bought it from somebody >> else, then there might be a variety of remedies. But here in the states >> to process a return >> proof of purchase is required. Again, I'm not insinuating that you didnt >> buy the phone. I'm >> just trying to nail down the details required to solve the situation for >> you. And I do appreciate your patience >> and your willingness to see some good in the device > I Look forward to hearing from you. > > Regards, > -Dale > > ---BEGIN EMAIL THREAD--- > > Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FreeRunner]] > Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:19:34 +1100 > From: Dale Maggee <anti...@internode.on.net> > To: cont...@openmoko.com, s...@openmoko.com, st...@openmoko.com > > Having received absolutely no response whatsoever after more than a > week, even after opening a refund ticker in trac (#36), I resend my > email once again... > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [Fwd: FreeRunner] > Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:25:12 +1100 > From: Dale Maggee <anti...@internode.on.net> > To: cont...@openmoko.com > CC: s...@openmoko.com, mic...@openmoko.org, st...@openmoko.com > > Having received no response whatsoever to my previous email, I'll send > it again, and add a few more addresses. Hopefully I'll get a reply this > time. Please see below. > > Regards, > -Dale > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: FreeRunner > Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:35:41 +1100 > From: Dale Maggee <anti...@internode.on.net> > To: cont...@openmoko.com > > Hi, > > Please advise what is the process for getting my money back for my Neo > Freerunner. > > Before I purchased this device almost a year ago, I was told that it > could reliably make and recieve phone calls, as per Steve's email below. > This is not, nor has it ever been the case - The device has *never* > reliably made or recieved phone calls, it's overall stability is > completely sub-par, and the ASU software stack mentioned turned out to > be even less reliable and also slower than the original 2007.2 software > stack. > > I have listened to Openmoko's promises regarding solving the issues, and > these promises have not been met, repeatedly. In addition to this, as > far as I can see, Openmoko's emphasis does not appear to be on stability > or being able to use the device reliably as a phone, you seem to be more > interested in building new frameworks from the ground up than actually > making the device do what I bought it to do. While I'll agree that FSO > may *one day* provide a usefull framework, it is presently far away from > this goal (*still* no PIM!). > > In addition, "a working phone that could be used as an everyday phone" > has a suspend mode, will happily go for more than 4-6 hours without > being attached to a battery charger, and will actually wake up from > suspend mode when appropriate (i.e if somebody calls). Thus this device > does not do what you have told me it would do, even nine months on. > Don't bother trying to tell me that "the suspend problems are fixed in > the .28 kernel", because months after hearing these claims there are > *still* no distros available which use this kernel, making this point > moot. > > I apologise for the curt tone of this email, but I have become > increasingly frustrated and disconcerted with this device as time has > gone on, I've repeatedly resisted the urge to post much more > harshly-worded emails on the mailing lists, and I have now come to the > conclusion that I have no option other than to purchase a new phone > which will actually do what it's supposed to do. As such, I will have no > use for the Freerunner, and according to the Australian Fair Trading > laws, I am entitled to a refund under the Fair Trading Act 1999 if the > goods I bought have a fault I could not have known about when I bought > them, or do not do the job I was led to believe they would. The > Freerunner clearly and demonstrably fits both of these criteria. > > As such, please advise how I should go about obtaining my refund. > > Regards, > -Dale Maggee > > > On 29-Jun-2008, steve <st...@openmoko.com> wrote: > >>>> The base software provided with the phone at launch will support >>>> everyday use. >>>> >>>> 1. dialer. >>>> 2. SMS. >>>> 3. Contacts. >>>> >>>> That was the fundamental goal. Provde a working phone that could be >>>> used as an everyday phone. >>>> >>>> In the background a whole new software suite is being created. ASU. >>>> >>>> So between launch ( right now) and sometime in August/september, >>>> > developers > >>>> will have a >>>> Phone that actually works like a phone. It's functionality will be >>>> basic. >>>> Come this fall >>>> The whole look and Feel will change. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> > > > ---END EMAIL THREAD--- > > > Steve Mosher wrote: > >>>> Hi Dale. >>>> >>>> I got a note from the people who handle these issues. In looking >>>> through our store records >>>> we were unable to find any order from you at openmoko.com. That >>>> doesn't mean >>>> you haven't purchased a phone. If you could, provide me with the >>>> details of your >>>> purchase. Who you bought it from and when. Also, if you take the >>>> battery out >>>> you'll see a IMEI number and a serial number. That will help with >>>> tracking as >>>> well. So send those along as well. >>>> >>>> Best Regards >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> st...@openmoko.com >>>> >>>> Dale Maggee wrote: >>>> Guten Tag, Sieg Heil. >>>> >>>> Seriously... You may not have heard of it, but There's a concept that's >>>> been around for a while called "Free speech"... you know, as opposed to >>>> "free beer". >>>> >>>> "Goebbels was in favour of free speech for views he liked. So was >>>> Stalin. If you're really in favour of free speech, then you're in favour >>>> of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, >>>> you're not in favour of free speech." - Noam Chomsky >>>> >>>> I am contributing - contributing to Free Speech, and I'm doing my part >>>> to warn prospective customers against giving their money to thieves. >>>> >>>> If you're not in favour of free speech then I have two words for you: >>>> "Email filter". But I'm not going anywhere. >>>> >>>> >>>> (Note: I know there are quite a few deutschlanders on this list, and my >>>> use of your language is not intended in any way as a slight against your >>>> people or country. On the contrary, I think that you're among the most >>>> beautiful and intelligent people in the world, and your country reflects >>>> that... :) ) >>>> >>>> >>>> jeremy jozwik wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> seriously... go write the prime minister or something. if your not >>>>>>> going to contribute your just wasting everyone else's time >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Dale Maggee >>>>>>> <anti...@internode.on.net> wrote: >>>>>>> arne anka wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bitter much? : ) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> nope. he's just a troll. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Before I bought My Neo, I was told by OM that it would work as a >>>>>>> phone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Once I got it and said "WTF This doesn't work as a phone!" I was >>>>>>> told by >>>>>>> OM that 2008.8 would. So I waited. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was worse than 2007.2. I was told that 2008.12 would be much >>>>>>> better. >>>>>>> So I waited. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Was there even any difference? Sure, the animations might have been a >>>>>>> bit smoother, or something, but it still didn't work as a phone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I asked for my money back I was told that it had been too long >>>>>>> since I placed my order... despite the fact that the only reason I >>>>>>> waited so long was that I trusted OM when they said that I would >>>>>>> eventually get a working phone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I contacted Consumer Affairs here in AU. They told me that OM were >>>>>>> legally bound by our laws (which include a clause giving me the >>>>>>> right to >>>>>>> demand a refund if the item doesn't do what I was led to believe it >>>>>>> would do). They told me that according to the letter of the law, >>>>>>> OM were >>>>>>> required to give me a refund. They also told me that since they're >>>>>>> based >>>>>>> overseas, there's basically no way to enforce it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In short: OM Have Lied to me, then violated the consumer >>>>>>> protection laws >>>>>>> they're bound to by selling a Neo to an Australian Citizen by >>>>>>> refusing >>>>>>> to refund my money. That means that *OpenMoko Are THIEVES*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anything I say about them is justified. IMO you can't be a troll if >>>>>>> you're in the right. And I am. I have been defrauded of $400. And so >>>>>>> have you. The only difference is that I'm not willing to sit around >>>>>>> pretending that being raped is all fun and games. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Openmoko community mailing list >>>> community@lists.openmoko.org >>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Openmoko community mailing list >>>>>>> community@lists.openmoko.org >>>>>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Openmoko community mailing list >>>> community@lists.openmoko.org >>>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >>>> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKBSbkFbVnQRV3OEYRAmG8AKCq7Y7Sq0o5UgKqA7FK4caICUsSyQCgoA+S tRkpVhlZt229cAFSwzm9CbM= =8HRu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community