I think Fernvale has/had communication issues. I watched the 31C3 talk that bunnie gave about the Fernvale project, and a lot of the surrounding documentation that I could fine, and it never occurred to me that a fernvale development board is something that I could buy.
The apparent Fernvale homepage [1] doesn't even mention that you can buy devkits from sysmocom. After watching the 31C3 talk I kept expecting to see a kickstarter or similar launch to get a bunch of pre-orders for dev boards but that never appeared to happen. Maybe this is just my perspective as an outsider, but to me it appears that the Fernvale effort needs some sort of web presence that provides a clear roadmap, leadership, and straightforward documentation on how to get involved. The impression I get from the current documentation is "a bunch of people are working on this really interesting project, stay tuned for its release!" [1] - https://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Fernvale_Main_Page On 10/1/18, Paul Boddie <p...@boddie.org.uk> wrote: > Hello, > > I saw the following article mentioned on the #neo900 IRC channel yesterday. > Here's an excerpt: > > "The lesson learned here is probably that even a technically very exciting > project backed by world-renowned hackers like bunnie doesn't mean that > anyone > will actually ever do anything with it, unless they get everything handed on > a > silver plate, i.e. all the software/reversing work is already done for them > by > others." > > http://laforge.gnumonks.org/blog/20180929-fernvale-discount/ > > The context is the technology for a low-cost phone which is covered by this > article: > > "Thus empowered by our fair use rights, we decided to embark on a journey to > reverse engineer the Mediatek MT6260. It’s a 364 MHz, ARM7EJ-S, backed by > 8MiB > of RAM and dozens of peripherals, from the routine I2C, SPI, PWM and UART to > tantalizing extras like an LCD + touchscreen controller, audio codec with > speaker amplifier, battery charger, USB, Bluetooth, and of course, GSM. The > gray market prices it around $3/unit in single quantities. You do have to > read > or speak Chinese to get it, and supply has been a bit spotty lately due to > high Q4 demand, but we’re hoping the market will open up a bit as things > slow > down for Chinese New Year." > > https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297 > > Indeed, I remember the original article that was posted on the topic of "The > $12 “Gongkai” Phone", presumably using a related Mediatek SoC: > > "The electronics consists of just two major ICs: the Mediatek MT6250DA, and > a > Vanchip VC5276." > > https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=3107 > > Maybe I missed the Fernvale announcement or something, but I'm not sure I > agree with assertions that people need everything handed to them or they > just > won't bother. I have messed around with products where things weren't > exactly > made easy, and I imagine that others on this list have been in the same > position. > > While I appreciate the reverse-engineering work done to get the Fernvale > stuff > out there, there comes a time when people just want decent documentation and > to get the feeling of working with the vendor, not against them. Indeed, > this > is more or less admitted in the announcement article: > > "I’ve reviewed business plans of over a hundred hardware startups by now, > and > most of them are using overpriced chipsets built using antiquated process > technologies as their foundation. I’m no exception to this rule – we use the > Freescale i.MX6 for Novena, which is neither the cheapest nor the fastest > chip > on the market, but it is the one chip where anyone can freely download > almost > complete documentation and anyone can buy it on Digikey. This parallel > constraint of scarce documentation and scarce supply for cutting edge > technology forces Western hardware entrepreneurs to look primarily at > Arduino, > Beaglebone and Raspberry Pi as starting points for their good ideas." > > I imagine that there are people would embrace immersion in Chinese > mercantile > culture, and it seems to have been fashionable for people to go on > "shopping" > tours of Shenzhen to pick up all the good stuff. But I don't think that this > helps to form the basis of a sustainable, collaborative project, at least > outside the referenced "gongkai" culture operating in China. Digikey may be > "overpriced", but at least you know what they have and that they will sell > things to you, as opposed to this from the original phone article: > > "Of course, you can’t just call up Mediatek and buy these; and it’s > extremely > difficult to engage with them “going through the front door” to do a design. > Don’t even bother; they won’t return your calls." > > I think it is great that Bunnie and friends made this more accessible and > that > Harald tried to make it more widely available. I get the impression that > Bunnie finds prototyping boards with surface mount components cheap and > convenient, which is rather different from the experience of those of us who > have a more casual interest in hardware experimentation. Offering a suite of > boards that could be used to make a product really is rather helpful. > > But what then? Such projects require a range of different skills to move > decisively in any direction, and the perceived skill level required to be > productive can be intimidating. I can imagine that someone as accomplished > as > Bunnie or his collaborators and peers might not recognise this, which makes > it > all the more important that such projects continue to benefit from the input > of those who initiated them. Looking at the Fernvale project page... > > https://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Fernvale_Main_Page > > ...I see that the boot environment made available hasn't seen much attention > for three years, the operating system for four years. I wouldn't blame the > creators for not continuing their work - we all have other things to do - > but > it suggests that the audience was not sufficiently engaged to want to > contribute to the effort. Then, they probably wondered if the thing had any > future. > > When messing around with the Ben NanoNote - another hardware effort that was > underappreciated while you could still buy one - there were several things > that I as a regular software developer had to familiarise myself with in > order > to do anything: decipher datasheets (in terse, not always readable, > language), > study bootloader code, learn the basics of interfacing peripherals, > understand > processor architecture specifics. And so on, up through the operating system > kernel, low-level user space mechanisms, eventually arriving at something > people might be comfortable working with normally. > > But that was a product delivered with a complete software distribution. My > own > experiments are unnecessary from the perspective of using what was already > delivered, but they provide an insight into the work that went in to getting > that product delivered. Few people have done low-level hacking with that > product, but the effort that went into code and documentation makes it > approachable for people like me. Anything less, and I wouldn't be surprised > if > nobody gave a product a second look. > > So, no-one without the experience, patience or skills is really very likely > to > just pick anything like Fernvale up. Things like Arduino and Raspberry Pi > are > popular precisely because the ecosystems are well-established and there is > always likely to be someone who also wanted to do the same thing as you > might > be thinking of doing. I think some people in the open hardware realm like to > ridicule these initiatives, but they could learn a few things from them > about > building communities and demand for their own work. > > Also, the chances are that you will be able to go and buy more Arduino and > Raspberry Pi products next year and the year after: a sustainable supply is > important, too, particularly if someone thinks there might be opportunities > in > working with those things, making products for them, and so on. Again, it is > all about finding the audience and establishing some kind of roadmap. Sadly, > this never really happened with the NanoNote, which was also ahead of > various > trends in a number of ways, and I imagine that the same applies to Fernvale. > > Anyway, that was longer than it probably needed to be, but I think that > there > are some lessons to be had about why some projects, great as they may be, > don't really seem to get any momentum. I might have been tempted by one of > these Fernvale kits if I didn't have enough other things to look at, but > maybe > someone here realises that it was what they had been looking for all along. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Community mailing list > Community@tinkerphones.org > http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community > http://www.tinkerphones.org _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@tinkerphones.org http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community http://www.tinkerphones.org
