All - Hmm. Maybe a little clarification is in order about the purpose of SE/30 "upgrades"? Long philosophical post follows ...sorry (there's always the "delete" key option, after all).
There's a subtle difference going on when we speak on the subject of "upgrading" vintage hardware ...whether that upgrade is a total replacement hack, or the simple addition of a card or additional memory or whatever ...a difference which I don't think is always clear - or understood - from the posts. That difference has to do with the intent - and purpose - of the upgrade. If your purpose is to retain the classic form factor, then almost anything goes in an "upgrade" project ...including a flat-screen hack with an ITX (PC) board running XP. Or ditto a flat-screen hack with a mini or Cube running OS/X. These are about as radically different from the hardware of the original SE/30 as you're going to get at present in the hacker community. The ONLY thing that remains SE/30 about the result in one of those kinds of hacks, that is even remotely suggestive of continuity with the original, is the overall external general appearance of the box. There's really no SE/30 left in the "SE/30". As one kind of example: http://tinyurl.com/4y7qd The "'depth' of changes" to the original SE/30 isn't necessarily related to intent per se, either. Changing out most of the SE/30 bits (in the case with) with a 9" VGA and an LC 475 and a slot-load burner is a pretty thorough changeover, after all. Even though the purpose of that may be quite different then the intent of an ITX hack. (There's *nothing* wrong with this kind of hack btw: the classic Mac all-in-one is a great form factor. It just "looks right" ...to most of us anyways. Even PC guys (as per the above). And you get to use the latest OS & the latest applications & the latest games, and still retain that "look" with modern hacks. Or you get a cool fish-tank, if that's your thing ...it's all fine with me.) But what if the purpose of an upgrade is to enhance the use of vintage *software*? Vintage software is no longer being marketed or developed of course, but is that necessarily a negative reflection on its continuing usefulness for its original purpose? I collect old Mac software (mostly applications, with a smattering of games) ..and not merely due to nostalgia. I know I - at least - am more productive in a *lot* of subject areas when I'm using older software. (And not just because I already "know how" to use some application.) I find older applications less cluttered (with "feature-creep" that I simply have no use for, and feel actually gets in the way of doing "real work"). Older apps are not "distracting" (with less emphasis on "eye-candy"). "New" vintage software I purchase (or download) is generally easier to learn ..and is as easy to use now as it was back then; it is usually more intuitive (it works as I would expect it to work). Quite often, vintage apps are unique (there isn't a modern analogue at all). Vintage software is *always* FAR less expensive! Just how much has writing your basic letter changed since the introduction of the personal computer, anyways! What if Internet connectivity is the issue? - Well, I have more modern boxes that do that quite well too. And for the more mundane and less net-centric connectivity needs, there are ample work-arounds to choose from for network and file-sharing/serving with even basic classic hardware (Ethernet & networking goes back a long way, after all). When I think of "upgrades" to classic hardware sets that I run equally vintage software on, my purpose is to enhance the use of that software ...and not necessarily to be able to run XP or iPOD on the thing (again, to which purposes I have no problem with, and am indeed quite supportive of: been there, done that). People used to do this all the time with this equipment, didn't they? Don't they still do it (albeit with modern equipment for use with current applications & games)? So a comparison of a machine that *will* quite snappily run that *vintage* software, with current equipment that isn't suitable at all to run that vintage software on, can be as out of context in some upgrade discussions as trying to use said vintage equipment with Quake IV (hmm, is there a QIV ...and having to ask the question shows how out of it I am about games). Given that purpose (i.e., enhancing the productive use of vintage software applications), the object of a building a "faster" SE/30 with hardware upgrades is much less an ephemeral exercise in neo-luddite quixotianism, then it is a rationally proposed solution to meet a current need. Ditto for discussions on which version of the MacOS the equipment can run: the suitability of the OS version is determined by the application software (and not vice-versa). Upgrading the processor from an '030/16MHz to an '030/50MHz (for instance), or upgrading the memory, or the drive, or the video, or (perhaps) the OS is actually a real - and worthy - enhancement with implications to my current working environment (well, at home). A 30% increase in speed **using the vintage software I keep the hardware for in the first place** becomes a valid *current* issue to mull over. For me, at least, pursuing a specific "speed" upgrade or other hardware enhancement is well worth the effort (and not just as a hobby). And it might be as worthwhile to someone else pondering a similar situation. So "quite slow" can be a very, very much a subjective observation ...and may also be quite unrelated to the intent of the user. My opinion? - An SE/30 '030/33MHz with a 7200rpm drive isn't ...necessarily .."slow" ...at all. Especially IF you're [still] using vintage software applications that do not even run on more recent hardware & OS platforms ...so, an '030/33MHz is ...fast. Quite a bit faster then an alternative platform that they can't run on at all. Think about it. (Luke - I quite appreciated the link to the upgraded PSU you included btw.) --- brandon davis --- -- sacramento, ca -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Re: SE/30 Upgrades ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Luke Brennan Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:34:47 +0800 I spent a little time with my first SE/30 and I ended up with: A Daystar - full '040 with a faster oscillator clock - I run mine at 44Mhz. I use an original Daystar SE/30 adapter, plus an Asante Ethernet. 128Mb of RAM doesn't make a huge difference. The new/bigger/faster HD probably was a better add-in. What I did find, was that with 128Mb, and the Daystar, and the Asante Ethernet, I had power-supply problems. I then found that http://www.artmix.com/j_product.html could build me a custom 200w PSU (240v where I live) I also use the RAG adapter plugged into the Asante, which tilts the Daystar back just nicely. After losing out on the bidding for a Micron Xceed video, I then stopped. Fitting in everything was getting tricky and the thing is still very slow. I've now gone an evil route with another SE/30 shell ...shoehorned in a 9" monochrome POS monitor (SVGA) and a Mini-ITX motherboard ...running WinXP. Luke ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Compact Macs is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/>. 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