Hideki Kato wrote:
> I'd like to give here an example to make things clear.
>
> The conditions are:
> 1) Using digitizing scheme that maps real score to [0,1] (or [-1,1]) 
> so that the program cannot distinguish losing/winning by 0.5 or 10.5 
> pt at all.
> 2) Playouts include some foolish moves (usually with low 
> but not zero probability), not to connect large groups in atari 
> position for example, due to hold its randomness.
> 3) The position is at early endgame where there are no moves that 
> gain greater than 2 pt, for example, in perfect play.
> 4) Black is behind by 0.5 pt.
>
> The playouts may return winning but gambling move (perhaps with low 
> probability) under above conditions, especialy in case of the number 
> of playouts is small which is usually true on 19x19, and UCT will 
> choose it.
>
> The question is, which is better to keep 0.5 pt behind or to play 
> gambling moves (here I mean such moves that B will lose many pts if W 
> will answer correctly) with expecting W's (stupid) mistakes?
>
>   
The assumption is that you suddenly cannot trust MC to do what it does
best even though you did for the entire game up until this point.   MC
of course will choose the "gambling" move.      The whole concept of MC
is to do what is most likely to produce a win.      

We should think twice before asking it to choose the moves that produces
the more sure loss.    We are the ones that have a bias about this, not
the MC programs.  


> In addition to above, there is one more issue to consider. If the 
> playout has a systematic error, nakade for example, it's not good to 
> keep 0.5 pt ahead.  Having more margin is clearly better.
>   
I believe nakade is a strawman.    There are lots of things MC does
better and lot's of things it does less well.    You can always find
positions that are hard or easy for your program to solve, but it isn't
intrinsic to this issue.     I don't think you should weaken this
concept of playing for the best winning chances for the very few
positions where MC programs take longer to resolve the endgame and there
is a slight chance that it will win if it just happens to be enough to
cover the exact situation.   Because this is no solution - it is at best
a patch and would only work in some cases.   If I could do something
that didn't hurt the program in other ways, but might help certain
positions once in a while,  I would go for it.     I've been in game
programming a long time - if you have a problem with certain types of
positions you really want a pointed solution that has little or no
impact on other positions.   You don't want to be going back and forth
fixing things up but you want to solve the problem as correctly as
possible the first time.       I'll call this principle, "every solution
has a side effect" but this is a pretty bad side effect.    (I can't
tell you how many times I "fixed" something in my chess program with
some evaluation change only to find that I broke many other things at
the same time.)

- Don



> The idea of floating komi helps above two.  I'd like to emphasize that 
> I know it's not a universal solution.  As it seems, however, very hard 
> to solve nakade problem, it could be a pracitical solution.
>
> -Hideki
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kato)
> _______________________________________________
> computer-go mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
>
>   
_______________________________________________
computer-go mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

Reply via email to