On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 15:00 -0200, Mark Boon wrote: > Thanks again for more explanations. I think the AMAF is clear to me now. > > > >> When you say you count all the playouts starting from an empty board, > >> then > >> I have no idea how our outcome can be different by 3-4 moves, > >> which is > >> coincidentally the average depth of a uniform tree of 1,000,000 moves > >> on a 9x9 board. > > > > Well we are doing 2 completely different things - so it is > > surprising to > > me that we actually came that close. > > > >> > > > This I don't understand. Both do a playout starting from an empty > board, trying every move but ko-captures and eye-filling moves (using > the same definition of eye). These are not completely different > things. These should be EXACLTY the same things. The only thing > different is that in my program the first few moves are selected by > my UCT search instead of random selection as in your program. But I > believe that does not affect the average game length one bit.
I believe this might have a small effect on the game length, but it's probably not the explanation. > > When I just run playouts from an empty board I get the same average > length, confirming that UCT selection does not influence the game- > length. I didn't assume you were doing a UCT search. I didn't > understand what kind of search you did exactly but in any case failed > to see how it would change the average game-length. You are getting about 3.5 extra moves. I count pass moves including the 2 at the end, and I assume you do the same but if you were not that would bring your count down - so that doesn't explain the problem. This is exactly why I wanted to do this - to get verification between bots. So we must explore these 2 possibilities: 1. I am doing it wrong. 2. You are doing it wrong. The things to check for both of us are: 1. proper 1 point eye definition? 2. simple ko testing (are you testing for simple ko?) 3. proper node count accounting. 4. properly random (in a perfectly uniform way.) 5. N*3 max game length (this is probably not the issue even if it's wrong) 6. Do we stop after 2 passes? 7. Never include a pass move in playout UNLESS no other move is possible. 8. suicide NOT allowed. 9. PSK never tested in the playouts. > > This is still something I don't understand. Are there others who > implemented the same thing and got 111 moves per game on average? I > tried to look through some posts on this list but didn't see any > other numbers published. So far I don't think anyone else has published. Please go down my checklist above and I'll do the same. If I implemented it wrong, I did it in all 3 bots I have completed so far, but that means little, they were all almost direct ports of each other in C-like languages. - Don > > Mark >
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