I think these time settings are too slow to watch. 3 hours absolute time each would be better to see how it goes and it will allow more rounds too. Anyway i think this answers a need for slower tournaments for bots who was existing and will be exciting to follow..
On 9/14/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Computer-go mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Computer-go digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Fan Xie) > 2. October KGS bot tournament: 19x19 (Nick Wedd) > 3. 2010 SLOW KGS bot tournamenrt, 19x19 (Nick Wedd) > 4. Re: Re : Re : phantom go, MCTS & decidability (Olivier Teytaud) > 5. using the opponents time for chosing komi (Stefan Kaitschick) > 6. Re: using the opponents time for chosing komi > (Francois van Niekerk) > 7. Re: using the opponents time for chosing komi (Willemien) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Fan Xie <[email protected]> > To: computer-go <[email protected]> > Subject: [Computer-go] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - Fan > > Fan Xie > Graduate Student at University of Alberta > > Confirm that you know Fan Xie > https://www.linkedin.com/e/eifj3e-ge1l1auo-2y/isd/1663465878/DIZQ2Rol/EML-invite_guest_snackified_59/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > After connecting with Fan, check out: > - Nathan Torkington at Telecom New Zealand > - Graham Klyne at Oxford University > - Rishab Ghosh at Topsy Labs, Inc > > (c) LinkedIn 2010 > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://dvandva.org/pipermail/computer-go/attachments/20100913/34d5a302/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 21:15:00 +0100 > From: Nick Wedd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Computer-go] October KGS bot tournament: 19x19 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed > > The October 2010 KGS computer Go tournament will be on Sunday October > 10th, starting at 08:00 UTC and ending at 18:00 UTC. > > Note that this is longer than usual, in response to requests. Only > people living in Europe and west Asia will normally be awake for the > whole tournament. I will be awake for the whole tournament myself, but > I do not intend to watch every round, so if something goes wrong I may > not be there to try to fix it. > > It will be a 20-round Swiss with 19x19 boards, 14 minutes each of main > time, and Canadian Overtime of 25 moves in 60 seconds. It will use > Chinese rules with 7.5 points komi. There are details at > http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=537. The overtime setting is > intended to avoid losses on time through netlag. > > I would have preferred to set it to 30 rounds, but the KGS tournament > creation software does not allow more than 20 rounds. I shall write to > wms asking for a simple change to allow for more than 20 rounds. > > Registration is now open. To enter, please read and follow the > instructions at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/how/index.html . The rules > are given at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/rules.html . Your bot need not > be strong to enter, indeed weak and new bots are particularly welcome. > > Please send your registration email (with the words "KGS Tournament > Registration" in the title) to me at maproom at gmail dot com (converted > to a valid address in the obvious way). > > Nick > -- > Nick Wedd [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 21:15:02 +0100 > From: Nick Wedd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Computer-go] 2010 SLOW KGS bot tournamenrt, 19x19 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed > > There will be a SLOW bot tournament on KGS, extending over Monday > October 11th - Friday 15th October 2010. There will be one round a day, > with time limits of 12 hours each, absolute. Each game will start at > midnight UTC. > > It will be a 5-round Swiss with 19x19 boards. It will use Chinese rules > with 7.5 points komi. There are details at > http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=536. > > Once play has started, if something goes wrong I may not be there to try > to fix it. > > Registration is now open. To enter, please read and follow the > instructions at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/how/index.html . The rules > are given at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/rules.html . Your bot need not > be strong to enter, indeed weak and new bots are particularly welcome. > > Please send your registration email (with the words "KGS Tournament > Registration" in the title) to me at maproom at gmail dot com (converted > to a valid address in the obvious way). > > Nick > -- > Nick Wedd [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:39:35 +0200 > From: Olivier Teytaud <[email protected]> > To: computer-go <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Re : Re : phantom go, MCTS & decidability > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> >> >> Actualy, I'm not realy sure I understand why japanese phantom-go is >> unbounded. Can you explain what is the difference with chinese rules ? >> >> > In chinese rules, there is a superko rule which forbids twice the same > situation (there are various forms of superko, but > roughly it forbids games longer than exponential). > Olivier > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://dvandva.org/pipermail/computer-go/attachments/20100913/aefaed6f/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:28:44 +0200 > From: Stefan Kaitschick <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Computer-go] using the opponents time for chosing komi > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > The usual way to use the opponents time, if it is used at all, is to > guess the opponents move, and do a normal search on that presumption. > If the guess was correct, then the search results can be used, otherwise > they are thrown away. > This is probably the most reasonable way, but ofcourse the effectiveness > is not so great. > Getting back to the the dreaded topic of dynamic komi, I would like to > suggest an alternate way of using this time: > Do a normal move search at several different komi levels, each with a > fraction of the normal number of positions. > It's not about finding the best move, only about estimating the winrate > at different komi levels. > This komi vs winrate profile could then be used to determine komi for > the next search. > Basically adjust the komi to the largest value that avoids a significant > drop from the winrate at regular komi. > The standard approach probably goes for a certain winrate that must be > maintained, but that way it's impossible to say how much additional risk > is actually beeing taken. > > Stefan > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:44:30 +0200 > From: Francois van Niekerk <[email protected]> > To: computer-go <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] using the opponents time for chosing komi > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I assume MCTS. I am yet to implement pondering (thinking in the opponent's > time), but I was going to just continue searching in my tree during the > opponent's time. No particular move is picked, but the most likely moves by > the opponent will automatically receive more focus due to the algorithm. > This seems better to me (and most efficient possible). Is this not the > normal way? > > This would obviously not give time for the dynamic komi estimation you > suggest, but intuitively this seems like it will yield the best results (in > even games). > -- > Francois van Niekerk > Email: [email protected] | Twitter: @francoisvn > Cell: +2784 0350 214 | Website: http://leafcloud.com > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Stefan Kaitschick < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> The usual way to use the opponents time, if it is used at all, is to >> guess >> the opponents move, and do a normal search on that presumption. >> If the guess was correct, then the search results can be used, otherwise >> they are thrown away. >> This is probably the most reasonable way, but ofcourse the effectiveness >> is >> not so great. >> Getting back to the the dreaded topic of dynamic komi, I would like to >> suggest an alternate way of using this time: >> Do a normal move search at several different komi levels, each with a >> fraction of the normal number of positions. >> It's not about finding the best move, only about estimating the winrate at >> different komi levels. >> This komi vs winrate profile could then be used to determine komi for the >> next search. >> Basically adjust the komi to the largest value that avoids a significant >> drop from the winrate at regular komi. >> The standard approach probably goes for a certain winrate that must be >> maintained, but that way it's impossible to say how much additional risk >> is >> actually beeing taken. >> >> Stefan >> _______________________________________________ >> Computer-go mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://dvandva.org/pipermail/computer-go/attachments/20100914/ca11e339/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:03:54 +0100 > From: Willemien <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] using the opponents time for chosing komi > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > If you use "whole number" komi and your program treads draws at 1/2 wins 1/2 > losses (or what is maybe easier a draw and a loss, and treat wins as 2 wins > and losses as 2 losses ) > then the winrate at the right komi should be 50% > > so if the real winrate is far below (-25%) or above (75% +) this you need to > adjust the komi > > The problem is that your program needs to do something with draws. > (and the normal UCB formulas don't work) > > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Stefan Kaitschick < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> The usual way to use the opponents time, if it is used at all, is to >> guess >> the opponents move, and do a normal search on that presumption. >> If the guess was correct, then the search results can be used, otherwise >> they are thrown away. >> This is probably the most reasonable way, but ofcourse the effectiveness >> is >> not so great. >> Getting back to the the dreaded topic of dynamic komi, I would like to >> suggest an alternate way of using this time: >> Do a normal move search at several different komi levels, each with a >> fraction of the normal number of positions. >> It's not about finding the best move, only about estimating the winrate at >> different komi levels. >> This komi vs winrate profile could then be used to determine komi for the >> next search. >> Basically adjust the komi to the largest value that avoids a significant >> drop from the winrate at regular komi. >> The standard approach probably goes for a certain winrate that must be >> maintained, but that way it's impossible to say how much additional risk >> is >> actually beeing taken. >> >> Stefan >> _______________________________________________ >> Computer-go mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://dvandva.org/pipermail/computer-go/attachments/20100914/7c0ee609/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > End of Computer-go Digest, Vol 8, Issue 17 > ****************************************** > _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
