I wonder what would happen if you counted jigo as a loss for both players...
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Willemien <[email protected]> wrote: > instead of randomsing a jigo maybe it is an idea to count all outcomes > double > > - count a win as 2 W > - count a loss as 2 L > this gives the option to > - count a jigo as 1 W and 1 L > > > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 6:06 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > I used to have "solved"-flags in the tree, but the implementation was so > > messy and caused bugs in interactions with other messy stuff so I removed > it > > and was happy. > > > > I guess introducing some other kind of exploration might be better. Or > maybe > > value jigo as just a little better than losing rather than as 50% but > then > > my simple solution currently is not good enough I would have to change > > datatypes and rewrite a lot. > > > > -Magnus > > > > Quoting René van de Veerdonk <[email protected]>: > > > >> Magnus, > >> > >> If you reach a final node, you can mark it as "solved", and never > explored > >> it again. Shouldn't that solve your symptoms? It appears from your > >> description that you do not have such a feature in your tree-search. > >> > >> René > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 8:42 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I did not want to spend a lot of time changing Valkyria completely for > >>> integer komi so I made a very simple hack to cope with the fact that I > am > >>> using integers and booleans for all computations of wins/losses in > >>> Valkyria. > >>> The hack is that every time a jigo occurs in a playout I randomize > which > >>> player should win which means the change is very minor to the program. > >>> Thus > >>> I d not to model jigo more than in a statiscal sense. > >>> > >>> I am doing some very deep searches to see what could be good moves for > >>> the > >>> most important lines in the opening book. I am using the 7.5 komi book > >>> because it is the most developed, but it may be that a 5.5 book is > better > >>> if > >>> black is favored by 7.0 komi. > >>> > >>> Anyway I just looked at a deep search spending 10hours of search, where > >>> old > >>> branches of the tree is cut off every time the program runs out of > >>> memory. > >>> (Which may also be a part of the problem). It turned out that search > >>> stuck > >>> to a PV and played to the end over and over again with considering > other > >>> alternatives. Valkyria uses exploration = 0. The game it played over > and > >>> over was 80 ply deep thanks to a small kofight and all move looks > >>> reasonable > >>> although sometimes some moves look a little odd. It does search > >>> alternatives > >>> a little bit in each position but it seems to quickly lock onto > something > >>> giving 50% for sure. > >>> > >>> My question: Is this normal? Without Jigo this would not be possible > >>> because a deep variation to the absolute end of the game would be a > clear > >>> loss for one side and then as the score goes down to 0 the search will > >>> explore many alternatives. > >>> > >>> Could it be that playing alternative moves in this search were all too > >>> risky so that search converges on a very long but guaranteed risk free > >>> jigo? > >>> > >>> I see this as a problem because if this happens a lot the program seems > >>> not > >>> really to search all options probably. It could be that my program has > a > >>> bug > >>> or twoo that causes this problem, so therefor I am curious if anyone > >>> could > >>> reflect on it or have some experience. > >>> > >>> I believe chess programs uses something call "contempt" to avoid > drawing > >>> too much (I think espeically against weaker opponents). > >>> > >>> Best > >>> Magnus > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Computer-go mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > >>> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Computer-go mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >
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