On 02/12/2011 19:31, Petr Baudis wrote:
Hi!
On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 12:50:21PM -0000, Jacques Basaldúa wrote:
It think it is fair to give MyGoFriend my 4th place manually as you did,
because it won against my program and deserves the place even if it lost due
to protocol issues against PNUgo. Nevertheless, ironing out the protocol
issues is part of computer go development (I know because I still have a lot
to work to be satisfied with my own program) and I recommend to clarify in
what cases will the KGS tournament system be overridden. Other programs have
had "unfair" (i.e., protocol related) losses in the past, and I think it
works as a motivation to improve the program. If you asked my opinion, I
would not override the KGS tournament system at all.
I think it's fair to get a loss if it's you mishandling the protocol,
e.g. implementing genmove-cleanup or the superko rules wrong.
On the other hand, it seems absurd to me to receive losses for
undocumented KGS quirks and downright bugs (forfeiting a game when
you log in as a human, not receiving any genmove commands or only single
side getting a chance to do genmove-cleanup).
I don't find superko a problem. I understand, and have documented at
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/superko.html , how superko is
implemented for these events. (But I think that page should make it
clearer that my KGS bot tournaments use Positional Superko. I'll change
it soon.) I can tell by looking at the game record which moves are
legal. If a program tries to make an illegal move, the move is rejected
by the server, and unless it submits a valid play instead, it will
eventually lose on time.
Undocumented quirks and bugs are much harder for me. If a programmer
claims his bot was never sent a genmove command, I am sceptical,
everyone else gets a genmove command. But I have no way to check, and I
have to use my judgement. In this case, my judgement was influenced by
the fact that KGS's game database was shown as a win for MyGoFriend, and
I decided in its favour. Knowing what I do now, that KGS can
simultaneously hold two inconsistent beliefs about the result of a game,
I would rule against MyGoFriend.
I shall add to the documentation, a warning that you will forfeit the
game if you log in as a human.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd
[email protected]
_______________________________________________
Computer-go mailing list
[email protected]
http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
