What I can't get past is that "we", or society is gov't. The federal
gov't was built only very specific powers. What it wasn't given
remained with the states.. more specifically the people. It's still
up to us. So again, what I don't understand is why we seem to want
out of our obligations (defined as societal/moral/ etc). Why are we
always looking to the state beyond its mandate?
We have a very capable, and flexible nonprofit sector constantly
experimenting with these issues and more. Gov't loves the NPS as it
provides a reliable proving ground. As gov't crowds out the NPS in
more arenas, while our civil society will never go away, I worry it
will become smaller or less vibrant similar to those in the rest of
the world.
cb
On Sep 23, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Randy wrote:
I believe you are correct; hence the logical (and moral)
inconsistency of those (mostly liberals and Democrats) who
simultaneously demand that WalMart and maybe other employers
provide more health coverage while also seeking universal health
care, usually through the federal government. Meanwhile, somewhat
ironically, Republican Governors in California and Massachusetts
have helped move their states towards providing universal health
care. The rationale for employer-based health coverage no longer
exists, as the circumstances which gave rise to this many decades
ago have changed dramatically.
If people believe there is an ethical obligation to provide health
care coverage for all who want and need it (as I do; at least for
legal citizens) than this obligation should fall naturally on
society, and therefore on society's main instrument of exercising
its explicit obligations - government; not on employers. That is,
"we" should assume this obligation and the costs of doing so, not,
as we are wont to do, pass it off onto others, such as large
employers.
Personally, the model that makes the most sense to me of those I
heard about is a single payer system; but I would add a lot of
significant sticks and carrots to incentivize behavior likely to
lead to good health and thus lower costs, while disincentivizing
behavior likely to do the opposite.
I would extend this to the radical notion that people who are not
able, at least at the moment, to provide for their children should
be discouraged - as an ethical matter - from having children they
cannot support, and therefore are likely to look to government to
assume, in effect, this parental responsibility. Of course, no
mainstream politician or public figure would ever dare raise the
ethics of having an unlimited "right to reproduce" irrespective of
the consequences of exercising that right, but the issue is both
logically and morally linked to the argument that society or
someone has an obligation to provide for health care coverage for
all persons, particularly those who cannot afford or access it on
their own.
What does this have to do with computers? Nothing, directly, but
since others are discussing this here, this is my 2 cents.
Randall
----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Taylor"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] [ OT WARNING!!!!
I can see an argument that society has an obligation to provide
health care to all, and that government is the best means to
achieve that. I do not see that the obligation, if extant,
should in any way fall on employers.
If one accepted that argument, that an economic entity that
employs a person obligated to provide healthcare to that person,
then every mom and pop enterprise, every individual who ever
hired a kid to mow the lawn, would logically and ethically share
the obligation, for the size of the employer does not bear upon
the obligation, only its practicality.
That is not Scrooge refusing to give to charity, for charity by
its definition is voluntary, not obligatory.
Matthew
On Sep 20, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Constance Warner wrote:
Does Walmart have some inherent obligation to pay healthcare? There
Might be a business case to do so...but that does not translate
into an
obligation.
COMMENT:
`Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.
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