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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. OT: on .ogg
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: on .ogg
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
From: "Ph. D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: on .ogg
From: Herman Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: OT: on .ogg
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
From: Tristan McLeay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Re: on .ogg
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11. Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12. Re: on .ogg
From: Herman Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13. Re: OT: on .ogg
From: Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14. Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: Joe Fatula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15. Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: "H. S. Teoh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16. Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17. Re: OT: on .ogg
From: Tristan McLeay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18. Re: : Interdental /l/ - in ENGLISH
From: Mark Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19. Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20. Re: on .ogg
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21. Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23. Re: Kura
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24. Re: on .ogg
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25. Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:44:03 -0500
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damian Yerrick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> "Ray Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> But, if you asked most people what the opposite of
>> 'construct' is, they'd probably answer 'destroy'. So the opposite of a
>> language constructor, is arguably a 'language destroyer' - someone who
>> wants the whole word to speak English :)
>
> Think of the former policies toward Native American languages
> in the United States, where speaking Injun in school was a
> punishable offense.
Ahem! Think of nineteenth-century Wales. Little miners' sons in school
with signs on them: "Do not speak Welsh to me."
Sally
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:56:18 -0800
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
I recently bought a headset, and today I recorded my first spoken
Asha'ille with it. I speak the newly translated Fear Litany:
http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/~arthaey/conlang/writing/interlinears/fear-litany.html
Files are currently in ogg format, but hopefully that won't be a
problem for anyone...
It's surprisingly hard to speak a conlang. I had to do several takes
of each sentence. I wonder how "American" it still sounds? Any accent,
of course, is my non-native speakerness showing through, and not
representative of "real" Asha'ille. ;)
--
AA
http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/
(watch the Reply-To!)
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:21:22 -0500
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthaey Angosii" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>I recently bought a headset, and today I recorded my first spoken
> Asha'ille with it. I speak the newly translated Fear Litany:
>
>
> http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/~arthaey/conlang/writing/interlinears/fear-litany.html
>
> Files are currently in ogg format, but hopefully that won't be a
> problem for anyone...
It is for me. Neither my .mp3 player nor my new .ra player will pick it up.
My firewall minded computer asks me if I want to save it, and warns me
against doing so. ;) If I save it, it asks me what I want to do with it.
If I tell the computer to make Media Player play it, it asks me to download
new material to do that. That's too much work for me. I've never even heard
of .ogg. What is it? Can you do .mp3 ? That's pretty standard.
> It's surprisingly hard to speak a conlang. I had to do several takes
> of each sentence. I wonder how "American" it still sounds? Any accent,
> of course, is my non-native speakerness showing through, and not
> representative of "real" Asha'ille. ;)
I don't pronounce Teonaht correctly. But I mispronounce it fairly
fluently--lot's of practice. It has much more palatalization than I give it
for my "pretty" little readings. But I don't sound American, I don't think;
I don't in any of the foreign languages I speak feebly. The French usually
take me for British, and the Germans take me for French.
Sally
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:36:59 -0500
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT: on .ogg
Okay, so I went to the Vorbis.com site and read up about .ogg. Apparently,
its big selling point is that it is patentless, so artists needn't pay
"tribute money" to the .mp3 corporation to publish their work. And Vorbis
claims the sound is just as good. And it's free.
What will I do with my Cakewalk, then, and my other files that "rip" into
.mp3 format? I've just barely gotten started with Cakewalk. :(
Sally
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally Caves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthaey Angosii" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>>I recently bought a headset, and today I recorded my first spoken
>> Asha'ille with it. I speak the newly translated Fear Litany:
>>
>>
>> http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/~arthaey/conlang/writing/interlinears/fear-litany.html
>>
>> Files are currently in ogg format, but hopefully that won't be a
>> problem for anyone...
>
> It is for me. Neither my .mp3 player nor my new .ra player will pick it
> up.
> My firewall minded computer asks me if I want to save it, and warns me
> against doing so. ;) If I save it, it asks me what I want to do with it.
> If I tell the computer to make Media Player play it, it asks me to
> download
> new material to do that. That's too much work for me. I've never even
> heard
> of .ogg. What is it? Can you do .mp3 ? That's pretty standard.
>
>> It's surprisingly hard to speak a conlang. I had to do several takes
>> of each sentence. I wonder how "American" it still sounds? Any accent,
>> of course, is my non-native speakerness showing through, and not
>> representative of "real" Asha'ille. ;)
>
> I don't pronounce Teonaht correctly. But I mispronounce it fairly
> fluently--lot's of practice. It has much more palatalization than I give
> it
> for my "pretty" little readings. But I don't sound American, I don't
> think;
> I don't in any of the foreign languages I speak feebly. The French
> usually
> take me for British, and the Germans take me for French.
>
> Sally
>
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:47:03 -0500
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: on .ogg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sally Caves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Okay, so I went to the Vorbis.com site and read up about .ogg.
> Apparently, its big selling point is that it is patentless, so artists
> needn't pay "tribute money" to the .mp3 corporation to publish their work.
> And Vorbis claims the sound is just as good. And it's free.
>
> What will I do with my Cakewalk, then, and my other files that "rip" into
> .mp3 format? I've just barely gotten started with Cakewalk. :(
>
> Sally
oggvorbis site has a "dare to compare" page, where they invite you to
download various .ogg files and compare them against .mp3 and wave files. I
downloaded the components that were supposed to allow me to hear one of the
samples, updating my MediaPlayer all the related programs, and I still
couldn't play it. Grrrrr!
Sally
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:52:20 -0500
From: "Ph. D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
Damian Yerrick wrote:
>
> Think of the former policies toward Native American languages
> in the United States, where speaking Injun in school was a
> punishable offense.
Not limited to the United States. Australian authorities in the
nineteenth century had the same policy toward indigenous
languages.
--Ph. D.
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:06:18 -0600
From: Herman Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: on .ogg
Sally Caves wrote:
> oggvorbis site has a "dare to compare" page, where they invite you to
> download various .ogg files and compare them against .mp3 and wave
> files. I
> downloaded the components that were supposed to allow me to hear one of the
> samples, updating my MediaPlayer all the related programs, and I still
> couldn't play it. Grrrrr!
Winamp (http://www.winamp.com/) plays .ogg and lots of other common
audio formats; it's a useful thing to have around.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 00:04:20 -0500
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: on .ogg
Sally Caves wrote:
> Okay, so I went to the Vorbis.com site and read up about .ogg.
> Apparently,
> its big selling point is that it is patentless, so artists needn't pay
> "tribute money" to the .mp3 corporation to publish their work. And Vorbis
> claims the sound is just as good. And it's free.
Same problem with me. Vorbis didn't even suggest updates/downloads..........
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:30:04 +1100
From: Tristan McLeay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
On 5 Mar 2005, at 3.52 pm, Ph. D. wrote:
> Damian Yerrick wrote:
>>
>> Think of the former policies toward Native American languages
>> in the United States, where speaking Injun in school was a
>> punishable offense.
[Sally points out similar happenings in Wales]
> Not limited to the United States. Australian authorities in the
> nineteenth century had the same policy toward indigenous
> languages.
And France at various stages, I believe. And Turkey with Kurdish.
Though not with English, of course. Probably in any country with a
dominant culture and minority cultures where the dominant culture has
different values from the modern Western liberal democracy. I'm sure in
the next era people will be shocked at our values too.
(PS: There were no Australian authorities in the nineteenth century.
Authorities on the continent of Australia were British, or Victorian or
New South Welsh or Queenslanders or South Australian or Western
Australian, and there were also of course the New Zealand and Tasmanian
authorities. [Not that I'm claiming Australia is innocent. Australian
authorities have had similar/related policies in the 20th C. OTOH, I've
never heard of such policies---the impression I've had from history of
that period leads me to be surprised that Aborigines even managed to
find themselves in a school.])
--
Tristan.
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 00:30:06 -0500
From: Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: on .ogg
Right... my husband has Winamp on his computer. A minor problem with it is
that it wants to interfere in "My Pictures" when I go to upload my digital
camera. I really only want the Media Wizard to be doing that. But maybe
that's another program, I can't remember. It's too late at night.
Sally
Do you use .ogg to record, Herman? Aren't a fair number of people still
using .mp3? I'd like a pro and con here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herman Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Winamp (http://www.winamp.com/) plays .ogg and lots of other common
> audio formats; it's a useful thing to have around.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:04:42 -0800
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
Emaelivpeith Sally Caves:
> If I tell the computer to make Media Player play it, it asks me to download
> new material to do that. That's too much work for me. I've never even heard
> of .ogg. What is it? Can you do .mp3 ? That's pretty standard.
I'm sorry about that! All the files are now additionally available as
MP3. I used ogg because that's what my sound editor could save as.
--
AA
http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/
(watch the Reply-To!)
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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 00:17:47 -0600
From: Herman Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: on .ogg
Sally Caves wrote:
> Right... my husband has Winamp on his computer. A minor problem with it is
> that it wants to interfere in "My Pictures" when I go to upload my digital
> camera. I really only want the Media Wizard to be doing that. But maybe
> that's another program, I can't remember. It's too late at night.
>
> Sally
>
> Do you use .ogg to record, Herman? Aren't a fair number of people still
> using .mp3? I'd like a pro and con here.
I save original files in .wav format and convert to .mp3 for the web.
Cool Edit 2000 (which was discontinued after Adobe bought Syntrillium's
product line) doesn't support .ogg files, since it came out before .ogg
started catching on. I have ogglame.exe for creating ogg files but I
hardly ever use it. I suppose I could download Audacity, but it's easier
just to continue using Cool Edit.
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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 01:39:51 -0500
From: Damian Yerrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: on .ogg
"Sally Caves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Apparently,
> its big selling point is that it is patentless, so artists needn't pay
> "tribute money" to the .mp3 corporation to publish their work.
> And Vorbis claims the sound is just as good. And it's free.
All true. Clarification: The "Vorbis company" you spoke of is Xiph.org.
> What will I do with my Cakewalk, then, and my other files that "rip" into
> .mp3 format?
If you can get the program to save as .wav, then you can use
oggdropXPd to convert any .wav to .ogg. Or you might be able
to find a plug-in that can output in the desired format.
If you're having trouble getting Wimpy Media Player to recognize
.ogg files, then I second Herman Miller's suggestion of using Winamp.
PRO: Better sound quality than MP3 at a given bitrate, or lower
bitrate at a given subjective sound quality. Lower bitrate means
less disk space or less bandwidth; less bandwidth means more
listeners to your stream.
PRO: Supports true surround sound, unlike MP3 which has trouble
even with matrix surround (Dolby Pro Logic).
PRO: No patents!
PRO: Free, permissively licensed decoder program available for
integration with DSPs.
CON: Not a lot of handheld devices with an ASIC decoder support it
because MPEG ASICs are much more common than Vorbis ASICs.
CON: Not a lot of handheld devices with a DSP support it because
decoding Vorbis requires more computations per second than
decoding MP3 or WMA.
CON: Not a lot of handheld devices with a DSP support it because
developers haven't been paid to integrate the codec with various
DSPs, and the extra revenue from "open source fanatics" wouldn't
be worth it compared to the revenue from those who demand MP3
and WMA support.
However, the iRiver players can decode and play Vorbis.
Verdict: Use Vorbis UNLESS you want to listen on popular brands
of handheld devices.
Herman Miller wrote:
> Cool Edit 2000 (which was discontinued after Adobe bought
> Syntrillium's product line)
If you want your CE2K back, write Adobe and ask when "Audition
Elements" is coming out.
> doesn't support .ogg files
The copy installed on my machine does. You just need to
use Google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cool%20edit%20vorbis
--
Damian
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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 02:13:01 -0500
From: Joe Fatula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:21:22 -0500, Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I don't pronounce Teonaht correctly. But I mispronounce it fairly
>fluently--lot's of practice. It has much more palatalization than I give it
>for my "pretty" little readings. But I don't sound American, I don't think;
>I don't in any of the foreign languages I speak feebly. The French usually
>take me for British, and the Germans take me for French.
>
>Sally
That's rather funny...
I've been told that my German sounds _Mexican_ of all things (though I doubt
most Germans would be aware of the difference between Mexican Spanish and
most other forms). My Russian sounds Kazak sometimes (uvular "q" and "g"
with back vowels, no palatalization, /Z/ > /dZ/, etc.).
Sometimes the vowel harmony rules from Kazak seem to spill over to German
for me, which gets weird looks from people.
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:15:01 -0800
From: "H. S. Teoh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 07:56:18PM -0800, Arthaey Angosii wrote:
> I recently bought a headset, and today I recorded my first spoken
> Asha'ille with it. I speak the newly translated Fear Litany:
>
>
> http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/~arthaey/conlang/writing/interlinears/fear-litany.html
[...]
Wow. Impressive! It sounds rather Spanish to my untrained ears... is
this intentional?
> It's surprisingly hard to speak a conlang. I had to do several takes
> of each sentence. I wonder how "American" it still sounds? Any accent,
> of course, is my non-native speakerness showing through, and not
> representative of "real" Asha'ille. ;)
[...]
I couldn't detect any American accent in it. (By which I assume you
mean American English.) It does sound a bit like Spanish. But then
again, I don't know what Asha'ille is "supposed" to sound like. :-P
Also, the sounds are a lot more connected than I thought. Now I'm
getting scared about recording samples of my conlangs... I seem to
want to articulate every word individually, to a point it'd definitely
not sound fluent.
T
--
English has the lovely word "defenestrate", meaning "to execute by throwing
someone out a window", or more recently "to remove Windows from a computer
and replace it with something useful". :-) -- John Cowan
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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 00:03:33 -0800
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
Emaelivpeith H. S. Teoh:
> Wow. Impressive! It sounds rather Spanish to my untrained ears... is
> this intentional?
The glottal stops, long /n/'s, and phonemic distinction between /i I/
and /e E/ make it sound separate from Spanish to my ears... OTOH,
Spanish *is* the only foreign language I can actually speak at all, so
I would be willing to believe it could influence my pronunciation.
> I couldn't detect any American accent in it. (By which I assume you
> mean American English.) It does sound a bit like Spanish.
The lack of American (and yes, I meant American English) accent
pleases me enough that I can accept a Spanish accent. :)
> then again, I don't know what Asha'ille is "supposed" to sound like. :-P
Hehe, me neither. I'm no native speaker, and I'm not lucky enough to
have informants like you do. ;)
> Also, the sounds are a lot more connected than I thought. Now I'm
> getting scared about recording samples of my conlangs... I seem to
> want to articulate every word individually, to a point it'd definitely
> not sound fluent.
Are there no anadewisms for distinctly articulated words? Regardless,
if you (general you, not necessarily Teoh-you) want connectedness,
just practice whatever sentences you want to record until you can
recite them with something resembling "normal" speed and intonation.
Easier said than done, but the practice will get you closer, even if
you don't exactly hit your goal. Like I said, I had to make several
recordings of each sentence so I could pick the most fluent-sounding
one. From what others have said in the past, I'm pretty sure that's
normal for recording conlangs.
--
AA
http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/
(watch the Reply-To!)
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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 19:31:29 +1100
From: Tristan McLeay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: on .ogg
On 5 Mar 2005, at 3.36 pm, Sally Caves wrote:
> "tribute money" to the .mp3 corporation to publish their work. And
> Vorbis
> claims the sound is just as good. And it's free.
'Vorbis' doesn't claim anything; Ogg Vorbis is just the codec. The
series of Ogg file formats include Ogg Vorbis (MP3-replacement: a lossy
audio codec, like JPEG for sound), Ogg Speex (a lossy audio codec
optimised for speech), Ogg FLAC (lossless audio codec, like PNG for
sound), Ogg Theora (WMV/QT etc.-replacement: a lossy video codec), Ogg
Tarkin (another lossy video codec with a significantly different
algorithm, IIUC) and Ogg Writ (a text codec, for subtitles in videos).
These different formats all take the extension .ogg, but internally are
quite different, and just because something supports Ogg Vorbis doesn't
mean it supports Ogg FLAC (non-standard extensions like .flac or .ogm
(Ogg media), but are not Approved of, and there's only one officially
approved MIME type, but a huge number of MIME types are ).
Vorbis and FLAC are relatively popular. Theora has only relatively
recently been finalised (compared to Vorbis), but I imagine it'll pick
up eventually.
The people behind Ogg are Xiph.org Foundation.
--
Tristan.
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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 05:02:03 -0500
From: Mark Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: : Interdental /l/ - in ENGLISH
I'm Mark Jones, a phonetician at the University of Cambridge, and I just
spotted your posting on interdental /l/ on the CONLANG archive. I posted
the original query (and summary) on interdental /l/ on LINGUISTLIST. Very
interesting that the distribution of interdental /l/ in American English
appears to be verified, by at least some postings.
One point I feel I should make about interdental /l/ is that it is
inherently velarised, or perhaps more accurately pharyngealised. The
acoustic effect of both is similar, no language appears to contrast them,
and for women a smaller difference is likely to be involved as they have
smaller pharynxes relative to the rest of their vocal tract. As you
probably know, the average female vocal tract is not a scaled down version
of the male: the ratios of cavity sizes differ. The muscles of the tongue
are very complex, and their interaction is still poorly understood in
articulating various sounds, but the point is that advancing the tongue
tip may require a contraction of the posterior genioglossus muscle, and
that this (combined with other effects) can cause a pharyngeal
constriction. So interdentals may be "inherently" pharyngealised, and you
don;t need to try and make an additional velar constriction (which would
be hard). We don't notice this so much with fricatives as the small
constriction size prevents much acoustic interference from the back cavity
(where the pharyngealisation is), the fricative sound being determined
largely by the acoustic characteristics of cavity anterior to the
constriction.
On the subject of interdental sounds due to coarticulation before
interdental /l/ or /TH/, e.g. in "funnel" or "health", European Spanish is
reported to have interdentals due to coarticulation, and I have variable
interdental coronals in the vicinity of my own interdental [TH], as I
think I said in my LINGUISTLIST summary.
Mark
Mark J. Jones
Department of Linguistics
University of Cambridge
http://kiri.ling.cam.ac.uk/mark
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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:03:49 +0100
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What to Call Non-Conlangers
Ph. D. wrote:
> Damian Yerrick wrote:
>
>>Think of the former policies toward Native American languages
>>in the United States, where speaking Injun in school was a
>>punishable offense.
>
>
>
> Not limited to the United States. Australian authorities in the
> nineteenth century had the same policy toward indigenous
> languages.
>
> --Ph. D.
And so had Sweden against Saami. The Saami children were
all rounded up at Swedish-language bording schools.
The Finnish population of northern Swedish suffered
a similar fate. No bording schools but Swedish-only
schools.
The 18th century Dano-Norwegian playwright Holberg
observed about his upper lower upper-class family
that "The parents spoke German, and the governess
spoke French, and at school they spoke Latin. Danish
the boy had to learn in the street." And the irony of
it is that what he called Danish was actually Norwegian,
as he grew up in Bergen.
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
(Tacitus)
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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:06:13 +0100
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: on .ogg
Sally Caves wrote:
> Right... my husband has Winamp on his computer. A minor problem with it is
> that it wants to interfere in "My Pictures" when I go to upload my digital
> camera. I really only want the Media Wizard to be doing that. But maybe
> that's another program, I can't remember. It's too late at night.
>
> Sally
I downloaded Zinf which is much smaller and plays ogg fine.
<http://www.zinf.org/download.php>
> Do you use .ogg to record, Herman? Aren't a fair number of people still
> using .mp3? I'd like a pro and con here.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Herman Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>> Winamp (http://www.winamp.com/) plays .ogg and lots of other common
>> audio formats; it's a useful thing to have around.
>
>
>
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
(Tacitus)
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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:28:44 +0100
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
Arthaey Angosii wrote:
> I recently bought a headset, and today I recorded my first spoken
> Asha'ille with it. I speak the newly translated Fear Litany:
>
>
http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/~arthaey/conlang/writing/interlinears/fear-litany.html
>
> Files are currently in ogg format, but hopefully that won't be a
> problem for anyone...
No, I just googled for Ogg and found players that support it.
> It's surprisingly hard to speak a conlang. I had to do several takes
> of each sentence. I wonder how "American" it still sounds? Any accent,
> of course, is my non-native speakerness showing through, and not
> representative of "real" Asha'ille. ;)
Have you tried reading from an IPA transcription? Doing that
considerably improved my Slvanjec pronunciation. I still
didn't get the /i/ vs. /i\/ distinction right, but that's
supposed to be a licence even some native aspeakers do.
> --
> AA
> http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/
>
> (watch the Reply-To!)
Yay, I remembered it this time! :)
Sally Caves wrote:
> I don't pronounce Teonaht correctly. But I mispronounce it fairly
> fluently--lot's of practice. It has much more palatalization than I
> give it
> for my "pretty" little readings. But I don't sound American, I don't
> think;
> I don't in any of the foreign languages I speak feebly. The French usually
> take me for British, and the Germans take me for French.
When I speak English I'm taken for Irish by Americans and for American
by everybody else. The Irish is probably because I sometimes pronounce
my /T/ and /D/ as stops, and voice my sibilants wrongly or not at all,
which is part of the Irish accent stereotype. I picked up my English
from my father's mother who had lived in Chicago for 10+ years, but
she still had an accent of course. Anyhow the "British" pronunciation
at school never stuck to me, although I *can* imitate it if I want to.
I must somehow have sensed that it was affected. It certainly was
with my last English teacher, who spoke an exaggerated girls' school
RP.
I wonder how I would pronounce longer stretches of Sohlob. Probably
rather French-like. My French is atrocious, but my father pronounced
all "unknown" languages like French, which rubbed off on my early
conlangs, and which still affects Sohlob prosody as I affect it.
Arthaey Angosii wrote:
> Emaelivpeith H. S. Teoh:
>
>>Wow. Impressive! It sounds rather Spanish to my untrained ears... is
>>this intentional?
It didn't to me. Neither did it sound very Murrican.
> The glottal stops, long /n/'s, and phonemic distinction between /i I/
> and /e E/ make it sound separate from Spanish to my ears... OTOH,
> Spanish *is* the only foreign language I can actually speak at all, so
> I would be willing to believe it could influence my pronunciation.
I didn't hear any glottal stops (probably due to my lousy speakers)
but picked up what I heard as emphatic sonorants which were rather cool!
>>Also, the sounds are a lot more connected than I thought. Now I'm
>>getting scared about recording samples of my conlangs... I seem to
>>want to articulate every word individually, to a point it'd definitely
>>not sound fluent.
I found that reading from IPA helped immensely there, although I
certainly still have that problem with Sohlob.
> Are there no anadewisms for distinctly articulated words? Regardless,
> if you (general you, not necessarily Teoh-you) want connectedness,
> just practice whatever sentences you want to record until you can
> recite them with something resembling "normal" speed and intonation.
> Easier said than done, but the practice will get you closer, even if
> you don't exactly hit your goal. Like I said, I had to make several
> recordings of each sentence so I could pick the most fluent-sounding
> one. From what others have said in the past, I'm pretty sure that's
> normal for recording conlangs.
I just heard from my stepson that our comp can indeed record sound.
Maybe I'll enlist his help and have a go at Sohlob. I would have to
compose a suitable text first, though.
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
(Tacitus)
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 22
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:43:43 +0100
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You wrote to Conlang list:
> The muscles of the tongue
> are very complex, and their interaction is still poorly understood in
> articulating various sounds, but the point is that advancing the tongue
> tip may require a contraction of the posterior genioglossus muscle, and
> that this (combined with other effects) can cause a pharyngeal
> constriction. So interdentals may be "inherently" pharyngealised, and you
> don;t need to try and make an additional velar constriction (which would
> be hard).
Do you know if the pharyngealized coronals of Arabic are ever
interdental? There doesn't seem to be any distinction between
alveolar and dental pharyngealized fricatives, some dialects
having dentals and some alveolars. BTW Gulf Arabic has a
pharyngealized /l_e/ in the word _Allah_ (but in no other
word AFAIK.
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
(Tacitus)
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 23
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:39:44 +0100
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Kura
Hey
I wanted to answer earlier, but my server didn't work due to
maintenance and thus I could neither send nor get emails.
On Thursday 03 March 2005 00:14 +0100, Cristina Escalante
wrote:
> Hello
> I was looking around here:
> http://del.icio.us/feaelin/conlang and ended up in here:
> http://www.ats.lmu.de/kura/index.php (Kura, a multi-user
> open-source linguistic database). Does anyone have any
> experience with Kura (and would like to share)?
>
> Thanks,
> Cristna
I've also got it, but I've screwed it up and now it doesn't
work anymore: I tried to connect to my MySQL server to save
my words and stuff in a dabase, but for some reason, the
server doesn't allow "[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" but
only
"carsten". When using a prompt, I'm always
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on my comp. *sigh* However,
I don't get
it working anymore. I've tried to connect as root as well,
so I can't even access Kura with root privileges anymore.
Otherwise, it seemed to be handy for organisation, though as
has been pointed out, the program has too much
point-and-clicking. I didn't get the program to
automatically parse my sentences, too. I have also had data
loss and I think this is because the program seemingly
screws up the temporary files, on Linux these are the ones
with ".filename".
Carsten
--
Edatamanon le matahanarà benenoea ena 15-A7-58-11-2-14-38
ena Curan Tertanyan.
» http://www.beckerscarsten.de/?conlang=ayeri
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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:39:07 +0100
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: on .ogg
On Saturday 05 March 2005 05:47 +0100, Sally Caves wrote:
> oggvorbis site has a "dare to compare" page, where they
> invite you to download various .ogg files and compare
> them against .mp3 and wave files. I downloaded the
> components that were supposed to allow me to hear one of
> the samples, updating my MediaPlayer all the related
> programs, and I still couldn't play it. Grrrrr!
The latest version of Winamp (www.winamp.com <http://www.winamp.com>)
can play OGG
files. So can XMMS, which is a clone of Winamp for Linux.
Carsten
--
Edatamanon le matahanarà sitayea eityabo ena
15-A7-58-11-2-15-39 ena Curan Tertanyan.
» http://www.beckerscarsten.de/?conlang=ayeri
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Message: 25
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 14:06:04 +0100
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: First Sound Recording of Asha'ille!
Quoting Joe Fatula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:21:22 -0500, Sally Caves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >I don't pronounce Teonaht correctly. But I mispronounce it fairly
> >fluently--lot's of practice. It has much more palatalization than I give it
> >for my "pretty" little readings. But I don't sound American, I don't think;
> >I don't in any of the foreign languages I speak feebly. The French usually
> >take me for British, and the Germans take me for French.
> >
> >Sally
>
>
> That's rather funny...
> I've been told that my German sounds _Mexican_ of all things (though I doubt
> most Germans would be aware of the difference between Mexican Spanish and
> most other forms). My Russian sounds Kazak sometimes (uvular "q" and "g"
> with back vowels, no palatalization, /Z/ > /dZ/, etc.).
>
> Sometimes the vowel harmony rules from Kazak seem to spill over to German
> for me, which gets weird looks from people.
I've been accused of speaking English with, of all things, a Russian accent.
Andreas
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